As I have been down with the flu for almost a week I have been pondering and thinking about my plans for a charcoal retort and as Kristijan posted about the first burn of the year I thought I would start this topic.
The charcoal is mainly meant to be produced as another small income stream to the farm but also used for our own needs of course.
I have a few round tanks at home between 2 and 4m3 (530 to 1050 gallons) and one I can pick up that is 5m3 (1300cuft, narrow and long), also a bunch of 0,5m3 (135 gallons) tanks for storing hot water (in house heating).
My original thought was to just build a big one and go for it but I am now thinking of building a smaller retort to start with for home use with those house heating tanks to refine the function for the bigger one, also to see if there is a market and to get my feet wet.
Sealed tank in an insulated tank, both horizontally, used as firebox with the smoke wrapping the whole retort before it goes out one or two flues is the current plan, sizes will be as it fits, no requirements whatsoever.
Retort tank gas flow I am thinking a series of 12mm 1/2” holes (x10 or so) in the bottom into the firebox plus a big offgas pipe at the top with a weighted lid as a safetyvalve just as on the Kursk 3.0, adjusting the gas going to the firebox and to release the steam in the beginning.
Both the big one and the smaller one is planned to use the same principle.
I have a few questions about this smaller one (guesstimating retort around 250litres or 75gallons) while this is still on the drawing board:
Do I need to lead heat through pipes inside the retort to reach the middle better? Retort diameter 60cm/2foot (Probably needed in the bigger version)
Are the 12mm (1/2”) holes too small and will be clogged or do I need more than say 10 holes? (Many small holes as I wanted to spread the heat in the firebox)
Any tips or do-not’s?
I probably have more questions that I didn’t think of now and as it progresses. And as usual for me, all thoughts and ideas are welcome here both good and bad.
Johan,
I think you are thinking too much. Especially because you don’t know if you have a market.
Charcoal making is easy if you have very dry wood. I like to use a TLUD (Top Lit UP Draft) because I think it is safer, no risk of explosion, or runaway. You can make a beginning tlud out of old coffee cans. Then a bigger one if you start making money.
Where I live I can buy charcoal at the grocery store, so I looked at prices there and thought about how much time it would take to make $100US. My calculations made me realize I don’t want to do this.
But making charcoal for myself is valuable to me. I use it for cooking, blacksmith forge, and gasifier for small engines.
Rindert
Two coffee cans. I can cook one meal.
Five coffee cans. I can cook four meals.
Thinking about it then 10x 12mm / 1/2” sounds awfully small but it is the same as a 1 1/2” hole, going up to 10x 3/4” holes is the same as a 2 1/2” hole and that seems a bit much to me
I am also not known for going for small things (often not a good trade either )
As I am thinking, a tlud with coffee cans produces fairly small charcoal and I think selling small charcoal is never going to work, that market is taken by cheap box stores and supermarkets. For our own use I would not have a problem with that at all, plenty good.
Unfortunately there just aren’t enough charcoal gasifiers around here to aim for that market, although a charcoal refill stop could exist here.
The market I am aiming for is the high quality charcoal buyers and they want pretty big pieces to burn a long time, bbq people mostly and the charcoal they buy is somewhere between double and triple the box store prices and then there can’t be any ashes or water in it, that is why I’m thinking retort. The market I would like would be a local one and that is what I don’t know if I can make myself a part of (seen or noticed are perhaps better words) .
I do have another market in mind that also would require clean and sifted high quality retort charcoal and that is also a reason to go with that but I would most likely need to provide a decent sample first and if that turns out good then the big one gets built.
All in all, I think a retort is required to have a chance at this here.
I am not talking down any method, they are all good for different uses.
Hi JohanM.
A bit off of your topic but seasonal since you said you were now down with this winters influenza for a week.
It went through our whole household of four out of five last month. Lots of heavy fevers and chills. Coughing, coughing for 7-10 days.
Even once you think it is gone . . . then for two of us we get repeating bought’s of swollen neck glands, repeat fevers, one side head stuffiness; sinus drainage and headaches.
Respect this one. It lingers. And for some it can kill. TV news says in my states population since mid-December so far 367 people have died of it. Two were children.
Of course they say it was because of the folks who declined annual flue vaccinations.
In my household we were all late last Fall flue vaccinated.
I still cough a month later if I push myself to breathing hard.
The 11 year old has had to go to a doctor twice now. Home from school again today.
I lost 4.5 kg in my 12-14 days of sickness. Only been able to get 1 kg back even now.
S.U.
Yes Steve, that sounds like the one I have. Headaches like nothing else and no pills I had at home helped completly, they took the top edge off though to make it bearable.
The rest of the family went down in this yesterday so I know what they have ahead but I atleast no longer wakes up to cough or snot-drowning during the night so.
I pushed myself slightly to do some work yesterday and only acieved cold-sweat and dizziness.
Be healthy
And definately off-topic for me but I have had this mulling in my head for a few years and now I stumbled over a tank a few weeks ago slightly bigger than those water heatertanks that would work pretty well together. Hence this rose up in my head
Charcoal as a business seems like a tough row to hoe. Gather up the materials, cut it to workable sizes, cook it and then break it up and package it… Develop a customer base or wholesale it to some retailer and take a big cut in your profits. I guess I got lazy over time. I think selling composting worms and worm castings would be better and more profitable. No real work involved. I spend about two hours every 7 to 10 days tending my worms. About 4-6 hours every 4 months separating the worms from the castings and starting new bins. No fumes or dust to breath. Plenty of demand once the word got out that you had product available.
There is definately money in the worms business however I found five sellers in Sweden and I believe the market isn’t that big here. People are lazy and our population is not so big, wouldn’t mind trying but it is a no-go for the rest of the family so that’s that.
The charcoal is only as a complement, not the main income and we are in an area with quite a lot of small farm businesses and if I make a few full cords of firewood extra every year and add value to that.
We have our old customers that still ask if we got something going on and I believe I can perhaps sneak into a friends customerbase as well .
Definately not wholesale or to a retailer, I won’t do it then
.
And if any of it doesn’t work out I still have the small retort for myself and family to use once or twice a year.
I will have no overhead costs in this whatsoever besides my own time and some electricity for tools, all materials is obtanium, must be a win if not the first successful batch then the second.
Or am I delusional in my thinking? I may be, hard for me to know.
There are quite a few successful charcoal maker companies around Sweden and there is room for more. More and more people want local, it has been growing a lot the last decade.
It is still only words on a screen at the moment, it can be scrapped anytime but it would be fun to make it and use.
Johan,
Here in the US you would have to have two very rich relatives. One of them would grow apples and give you all the apple wood for free. The other would own a very expensive steakhouse restaurant. Maybe in Sweden it is different. I wish you success.
Rindert
I took flu vaccine only once and got the flu worse than ever. I just let my immune system take care of it. They say if you take medicine you get over it in 7 days; otherwise it takes a week!
Johan,
Here I have an idea to reintroduce a very old product to American society; apple syrup, or appel stroop (Nederlandse).
My wife volunteers with this organization to get all the fruit that people don’t take care of. This because in the fall a lot of bears, that usually stay in the mountains, can smell it and they come into the city. This is creating problems.
Maybe I can get all those apples?
But this is crazy talk. Really, I am going to make about ten gallons of apple syrup. Some will be Christmas presents for Dutch relatives, the rest will be for my family.
Rindert
Johan, in my area where I live making charcoal is done in a fire ring camp fire. Less smoke and less charcoal. But a retort will get the fire department at your door here because some good person saw the smoke a called it in to them. Burning bans laws I do not like them but we have to deal with it here. A night time back yard camp fires no smoke to see by others and it is okay to cook some hotdogs over it to eat by the laws of the land.
I had to interview my wife about appel stroop (she’s dutch), I never knew about it so she said next time we order from the Netherlands we’ll get a bottle of that too. She said it does not go with as many things as the regular one we buy. I don’t use it much but it’s memories for her.
Appelstroop, it sure does sound good, especially homemade. Is it just boiled down juice from fresh pressed apples, as maple syrup is made?
Ten gallons though, that is a lot of syrup. Or did you mean from ten gallons of apples?
I think I have seen applejuice in the stores here made by an organisation just like that which utilizes some of the enormous amounts of apples going bad every fall because people don’t take care of stuff themselves anymore.
Bob, there are not many things that beats a fire ring with friends and family.
Around here there is someone burning something every other week so a supernova retort that burns cleanly would go unnoticed.
I notice those burns though fast by smell but I just want to make sure it’s nothing on fire around the farm or the surroundings
I do have a friend in the village that is head of the local part-time fire departement, I’ll exchange a few words with him just to make sure.
There is definitively a bussiness in charcoal here in Sweden, especially the bigger “lump” charcoal.
There is some small company north of you selling the stuff in fancy wooden boxes, with a shameless pricing. $$$$.
I would go with a retort, it’s pretty self-going, just check it and feed it some while doing other chores.
Around here many sports/soccer clubs run a “kolmila” every fall, in spring they sort and bag the charcoal, it is usually sold-out in one day!
I know which company you mean, never met the people but good for them that they get paid the price they ask
It is the big ringing chunks that sells at a premium price.
There are quite a few ‘kolmila’ around here as well. Mostly done for cultural and fun reasons, some to promote an area or village.
Loads of work on a mila, many people involved in it, both preparing and then 24/7 watch it and tender it while running.
Hi Johan!
Im producing charcoal in a retort almost like the one you think of making.
There is a market for swedish made charcoal here in sweden and you can basically set the price you want.
About your plans: the holes for the gas seems big enough but i would suggest you to make something so that you can close the gas outlet so that the charcoal when its finished cant get any air. The air could make your product loose quality.
The most important is to insulate the retort to get the best result otherwise youll have to use lots of wood heating the retort.
From what I have read I got the impression that it is not necessary to close the bottom as charcoal fines cover the holes when the pressure is gone but I do not know.
What I do know is that it is pretty easy to lead the gasses into another pipe with holes and a shut-off valve, especially with my smaller one to start with.
Perhaps this will mean less wear and metal distortion when the gas flames are a little further away.
As for insulation I have collected used rockwool netted pipe insulation and I am guessing it would be enough with 70mm (2 3/4”) but perhaps I will go for double because of the big difference in temperature. Haven’t decided partly due to lack of experience
)
