Big thumbs up on your chicken tractor Al. We have never been able to have chickens. Too many predators. Many have tried and failed. It would take an enclosure with a closed top. How do you use the electric poultry netting?
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Yes, Kristjian, 5 people can be fed on 1 hectare of land. But you will have to abandon the technique and instead use your muscles, shovels, choppers, rakes, etc. Even a horse will have nowhere to keep on such a site. We tried it when we bought our first house with 1 hectare of land in our village. In addition, you can afford a maximum of 1 goat, and this is very little for 5 people. And of course, the issue of paying for things that do not grow on earth will remain unresolved: communications, electricity, clothing, water pumps, various household appliances (which, unfortunately, are also not eternal).
For ourselves, we decided that we were too lazy to grow food all our lives with such hard work. Neighbors old people are so right in our faces and say that we are lazy! And they are right. But we look at our youth and understand that they are even less willing than we are to do heavy rural manual labor. Today’s youth call themselves energy-saving. And they are right too! Therefore, our path is the reasonable use of convenient equipment on our 4.5 hectares of land. And in the future, maybe we will buy more land. Future will tell. One of my goals is to completely give up retirement in old age. And thus show the children an example of how to stay away from the clutches of the governments.
The day before yesterday, the governments paid miners well, yesterday lawyers and economists were in demand, today programmers are in the money trend, what will happen tomorrow, I can’t even presume to say. But I don’t like this kind of instability! Quite another thing is your own food! After all, growing food with ease is the same as printing your own money!
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We have lots of predators here also, but with an alert shepherd dog, and an armed owner we keep them well in check. We’ve raised chickens for many years. We use to raise Cornish cross on pasture in sliding pens,(some years in the hundreds) but they are very lazy birds that just want to camp out at the feed. This time we are trying Breese breed, they grow about the same rate forage better, and are not hybrid, so we can raise our own chicks instead of buying them every year. How to Install an Electric Poultry Fence Video - YouTube
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Again a well worded post Maret that translates excellent.
I can smell the work-sweating. Feel the sting of the sweat dripping down into my eyes.
I previously began topic that below a certain power requirement home-farming you were far better doing it by personal work-sweating:
And you say this the same much more compactly.
Forum Administrator Chris Seanz income supports his family by “programming” too.
But tries to feed his family by site grown. A large growing extended family too.
The best in the West for small plot power equipment’s comes from the Adratic Seas area. Unlike France, Ukraine, The US and Canada: THERE; NO big open fertile spaces to support BIG, BIG private or Government agricultures. Small plots on, and withing rocky hillsides.
The very best farming/agricultural had tools in the West come from the Netherlands. I also get excellent farming/gardening hand tools from Korea and Japan.
Same-same reasons. Small counties that cannot support BIG Agricultures.
Hand sweat working some daily will; keep you as healthy as possible, as long as possible.
And why do this in an Urban Gym, eh. Paying dearly for that sweating.
But as you know well now some jobs/tasks need the weather window speeding up of powered machinery. Plus using you body as the horse leaves no time for children teaching, reading, just life contemplating.
Regards
Steve Unruh
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When people want to talk about things like the food supply and global food shortages, grain shortages because of the war in the Ukraine or banned exports of Russian wheat, lack of fertilizer in the US or Canada, they are talking about the fact that the world is set up so that a very small group of people have taken on the business of providing food for a vast majority of the earths people. I won’t go into all the reasons this centralized production system is failing. What I will say is that it is not my problem. I can do nothing whatever to solve that problem. I can only work towards solutions to feeding my immediate family. Not Joe financial planner or Eddie who sorts packages at Amazon. However every pound of food I provide to meet my own needs leaves that pound in the system for non-producers so in that way I am contributing to the overall welfare of others. First downsize your mental programming and then extend it to your day to day life. As Tone commented. We are basically tribal beings who have been tricked into thinking we are a global network. I am very interested in all the people here from the various areas of the world and what they are doing and I’m anxious to share ideas and thoughts but Tone won’t be growing my squash or corn and JO will not be forging my tools. That’s all on me because I was provided all the things necessary to get from the start of the race to the finish line on the day I came wailing into this world. I just had to learn how to use them. The point of self sufficiency is not to separate yourself from your community but to not be a burden on it. From that point on you can work toward common goals and even provide for those who are not physically able to do for themselves.
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Chris SaenzChrisPremium Member
OK, all users should have received an email from me about the updated terms of service. Please let me know if you did NOT receive this email.
Sean FrenchlgthnnPremium Member
I got it loud and clear!! Very reasonable agreement Regards sean
"Free users have signed up for a free account. They receive all services available to anonymous users, along with the ability to post on the forums, maintain a profile page, and contact or be contacted by other members. Any content uploaded to the public area of the site is released into the public domain and may be copied or altered freely. If you wish to retain control of words or pictures, do NOT post them publicly.
Premium users have purchased a membership from the site. They receive all services available to free users, along with access to proprietary information held by Wayne Keith regarding the construction and operation of his equipment. This access is not free, nor is the information available for public use. Premium members are strongly discouraged from freely giving out this information to non-paying users. Doing so amounts to piracy, a practice which is illegal but very hard to stop. We must act on good faith and ask our members to respect this. If you give away our premium content, it’s bad for business and ultimately the site will go offline. Remember, we are trying to cover our costs and keep this site open and operating.
The following information is deemed proprietary:
Articles and other text explaining the construction and operation of the gasifier.
Videos showing the same
Photos showing the same
Answers to questions or other text revealing the structure and operating principles of the unit
Videos revealing the same
Photos revealing the same
Specifically, we ask that members constructing Keith style gasifiers to be “vague” on the details, and to not post detailed photos or videos of the internal components in public forum posts.
Premium service also includes access to special forum areas intended for discussion of the Keith gasifier and its construction. Proprietary information may be shared here, because only premium members have access. Content uploaded to the premium area is treated as proprietary to the site, and will not be made publicly available except in special cases (“teasers”) in which very little proprietary information is given away."
i just wanted to clarify, so as to not step on any toes, since i am a free registered member, i am at liberty to post in depth information and photos from my own independent research and build? this is correct? since i have not purchased info and would in no way be committing acts of piracy?
i figured site moderators would have edited my posts by now if anything was not conforming to the rules, but like i said just wanted to clarify…
Chris SaenzChrisPremium Member
Hi Brent,
Anything you contribute is fine, you’re free to add as much info to the discussion as you like! Freely given is freely shared.
We mostly don’t want folks posting info and pics about Keith gasifier internals on the public side of the fence. And yes we’ll let you know if something’s out of line, not to hurt your feelings but just to be clear as to why you got moderated.
Richard “Pepe” Lemieuxpepe2000Premium Member
Hi Chris, I have read and totally agree with them. We’re all here to teach/learn gasification and to say hello.
Thank you, Pepe
Britnursepractitioner1Premium Member
Hi Chris!
I like the terms. Would be specific in the following areas. Be specific about risk: "Risk of explosion, burn, injury, death (particularly r/t carbon monoxide), or injury self and to others. Compliance with any Country, Federal and State laws…etc.
While one might assume that someone on this board understands the apparent risks, it would be easy for Plaintiff’s attorney to argue that they did not.
Chris,
Just want to give my thanks and appreciation for all you have done to make this website all that it is. It has become the new center of my free-time life! You all are the most helpful, friendly yet frank and straightforward, bunch of folks I would ever want to be associated with and to learn from. One day I hope to join those of you who have actually driven on wood. My need is to have one that will drive well over two mountain passes, in the snow in winter and over washboard in the summer…to visit my son’s remote ranch here in Eastern Washington. It now costs me ~$25 in fuel every time I go, which is often!
Jim
2 YEARS LATER
Good Red Sky Morning to All.
(really actually was red here)
I wanted to bump this topic back up for reflection and clarification.
C-o-l-d frozen in for most now, and slow outside so a good time to review this before getting out, about, and busy times come again.
No real problems with terms vilolations that I’ve seen.
A few new folk wanting to modify/develope the WK systems downsized having to be switched from the open broadcast side to a set-up dedicated Premium side Project thread of thier own. Thanks WayneK.
Couple of instances of having to point out the difference between aggressive “debating” style posting that is clearly in two places in the Terms of Service resticted in favor of a kinder, gentler, more respectful “discussion” style of posting.
Read AdminChris’s post above specifically using that term, and intent for the DOW to be a “discussion” format.
All just minor bumps in the road to sharing.
I’ll let Admin ChrisKY address other rough points such as real name and general location requirements he’s had to handle.
Any de-political; de-religious; de-rabble rousing he’s had to dampen down.
His de-spaming work in new members pre-screening and approving has helped a lot. Thanks Chris.
Again this slowed down cold time is a good time to reread and reflect for yourself the Terms of Service and judge for yourself, “How am I doing?”
Regards; Small Engine Users Corner host
Steve Unruh
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Chris SaenzChrisPremium Member
Morning Steve,
Far as I can see everyone is doing a wonderful job. Like you say there are always “bumps” on the way. But as forums go this is a very peaceful and productive one.
We do have a strict real names policy, as you can see by perusing the members list. There are several reasons for this, first and foremost that this is a real community and we want to get to know each other. There’s no hiding behind cryptic handles here. If it’s your own name on the post, you’ll think harder before you sound off. Another benefit is, it makes spammers very easy to spot. And you see virtually no spam here!
Locations are different, not required or strict. We like to know where you are in general, but please nobody post your home address. City and state is fine, even just a state or region. Saying “United States” is not very helpful, but remains acceptable. If someone wants to find other woodgassers near them, it’s nice to have at least some location info. Eventually I’d like to get a map together, one that accounts for all the vague locations.
Hi Chris;
Don’t remember getting email but do agree to terms. Danny Cox
Chris SaenzChrisPremium Member
Danny, you joined about 5 months after that email went out.
Anyone who joins has to check the box saying “I have read and agree to the terms of service”. I’m sure everyone reads it carefully… 
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6 MONTHS LATER
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8 YEARS LATER
Good morning to All,
Time to bump this one back up, and visible, again.
We have many new members now with the recent jacking up of fuel prices.
Yes. There are Rules to DOW participation.
There are expected Responsibilities in the Terms of Service too.
This was determined the only way to promote and retain civility among diverse thinkers.
Do read the first posts blue highlighted link Administrator ChrisS had put up.
Used to be you had to Read and Click agreement before you could open forum post up.
How/why that drifted away . . .
I think the change from Drupal to Django format.
A lot of you new guys are coming on faceless behind cutsie Anonymous screen names.
Read the Terms of Service carefully.
If you chose full Anonymity you can still read along. You just do not get to paddle the boat.
I am Steve Unruh
Yacolt WA USA
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Here you go fellows.
A new day. A new irritation from Steve Unruh.
Only 27 reads of the highlighted Forum Rules / Terms of Service.
That means a few hundreds of new guys ignoring, or oblivious; still.
Go to the bottom of the DOW very friendly Home page. Left hand lower corner.
This site was established and set up by a partner ship of Chris Saenz and Wayne Keith.
In 2012 just months into it’s inception Chris Seanz, one of the origination partners, developed theses Rules and Responsibilities.
I was not at all involved. Personally knowing him previously on other forums I know he had learned the difficulties of free-for-all (also an American colloquialism for riot fighting) laissez-faire social forums.
The proof of his Rules and Responsibility wisdoms is 10 year later and the DOW is still standing; communication and exchanging. Weathering all of the slings and arrows, and bumps in the roads.
Now the other DOW originator-developer-owner Wayne Keith has expressed a personal need to see peoples faces. Helps him remember us as unique individuals, he has said.
Sigh. This is for you WayneK. My real me, of now, today.
Damn. How did I ever get so old?
And after the 100 days of nearest city to me Portland OR streets rioting anarchists, Anonymous, and ANTIFA hoodlums insistent using destructions for rapid social revolutions, I am very, very cranky now.
You will get nothing from me here, any hiding behind your masks.
The DOW is a different place by intent. A successfully, different place.
Regards
Steve Unruh
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Cody Edison TateForbiddenTunaPremium Member
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Forgive the acne scars, taped up glasses, dirty hat, neckbeard, cartoon villain eyebrows, and the rest of my ugly mug while you’re at it.
It’s so hot in the South it’ll make at least half of your face melt and droop.
No I’m not arching one eyebrow I just have Resting Jerk Face.
Not afraid to show it, just trying to protect y’all’s vision.
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Wayne Keith ( Springville AL )WaynePremium Member
Damn. How did I ever get so old?
Hello Mr. Steve .
I think I have you beat in one category of being older and uglier 
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Bump. Still a lot of new members not having read this yet.
How to know.
They are still not registering required full names.
Steve Unruh
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Kristijan LeitingerKristijanLPremium Member
I just sayd to Tone the other day, the thing l like most about this site is everyone is (shuld be) signed in with his own name. You put your personal reputation on the table that way, and its a part why this forum is so civilised.
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Cody Edison TateForbiddenTunaPremium Member
I agree completely. When someone is anonymous they are emboldened to say whatever rude things they want. When their full name is on display much like when you’re out and about in real life you have to think about what you say. I had my name on here since the start because I’ve never had anything to hide, I’m among friends on this website.
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It’s been awhile… I still check in regularly but find my core projects moving away from gasification. This topic sparks something for me. Currently I’m focussing on high insulation building and all electric houses since that is the future. We sold off the former property and moved a little south to technically a more densely populated area but our place is more rural then the last one. Less cottagers more farmers… The new house is icf construction, heat pump heated and cooled, triple paned windows and will be solar powered with grid connection and battery backup. Full sized house on less then 10000 kwhrs is the goal. Huge by world standards but fairly modest by western norms as a builder I needed to make the house relatable to possible clients.
Honestly it is an expensive way to build but the tools can be applied to any scale. Efficiency, pragmatism and actually doing something still has its place in this world. I’m not a big believer in top down solutions favoring cost driven small solutions applied by actual people working at the fringes of the existing system, tweaking it to meet your needs.
I’ll attach a picture, this is me; house in the background
Cheers, David Baillie
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I don’t worry about predators because I keep my stacked cage in my garage. The quail chicks I hatched are now 4 weeks old and will start laying eggs in a couple weeks and the surplus males will be ready for the freezer at 8 weeks.
I started out with 15 chicks but my next batch will be 40 eggs in the incubator from these birds.
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Ha! Ha! DavidB., you’ve added grey into your beard since last seen.
Children?
Clients?
All joking aside it makes you look Life-seasoned, wise.
Regards
Steve unruh
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Ha! Thanks Steve… I think. Two girls 10 and 8. Their biological mom passed away 5 years ago now. I’m repartnered now with a very pragmatic farmers daughter from the area. The grey has been well earned I think.
Cheers, David
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The pastured poultry is more nutritious because of bugs, and chlorophyll(from grass)same as no grain, grass fed, grass finished beef.
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that is a nice cage. Did you design that yourself?
Do you sell the eggs and birds are are they just for personal use?
Do you only raise them in the warm temps or keep them year round?
if it is a business I am pretty curious, my kiddo was interested in chickens in part because I think she thinks she can make money at it. Quail are quieter and seemingly would be more lucrative.
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They are supposedly more nutricious than chicken eggs and they usually lay an egg a day. These are jumbo coturnix quail and they dress out between 6 and 7 oz. at 10 weeks and are really delicious.
After they are fully feathered they can withstand sub zero temps without a problem.
I took the best ideas for cages off the internet.
I raise them for personal meat and eggs.
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for how long? Do they smell like chickens?
I was going to ask about how you dress and market them, but you don’t do that bit which is fine. I am just curious
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Goats love many different types of trees. Especially acacia, apricot, pine, ash, etc. We harvest ash because it is fast and its branches grow evenly. These are forest belts along roads and between fields for protection from winds. They were planted back in Soviet times, and at that time they were regularly cleaned by the forces of collective farm workers. Now everything is overgrown. The branches of the trees grow so strong that the school bus breaks its mirrors and the flasher on the roof about them.
I take a chainsaw and cut down fresh shoots 2-3 cm thick almost near the ground itself. They reach a height of 2 m. It is useful to do this in July, but sometimes we delay the preparation of branches and do it in September … Then the wife or son helps to put them into a light trailer. At home, we disassemble this pile into small bundles of branches so that we can clasp it with two palms. We tighten it with a loop of rope from hay bales, which everyone here has a lot of left. And hang in the attic on S-shaped hooks. There they dry.
Sometimes it seems to me that if there were more branches than hay, then the goats would eat only them. But manual labor is unproductive, so the harvesting of branch fodder needs to be improved.
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They will lay almost year around if they get about 14 hours of light per day.
They poop a lot which is good for the garden. The cages have trays for easy cleaning and if there is ventilation the smell is minimal. Here is a website (among many) if you want more information. How to Raise Coturnix Quail For Meat & Eggs | HOA "Grow Your Own Food" Collaboration - YouTube
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Since they don’t forage, what do you gauge your cost for feed to be compared to the value of the eggs and meat? Admittedly eggs and meat are becoming very expensive now but I imagine cost of feed is as well. Do the birds seem to mind the confinement?
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They have a high feed conversion rate and don’t really eat that much considering how fast they grow. They need 3 things to be happy; feed, water and safety (they scare easily) so the confinement is perfect for them.
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Where did you get the birds and if you didn’t buy feed, what could you scrounge up to feed them?
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One bird we had tryed in the past that was very easy manageable successful were Mucovy ducks.
My wife got 4 breeding pairs as a gift from a nursing client. They were supposed to eat the slugs we have much problem with here in our rain forest.
They self-managed wonderfully. Were much less work than chickens.
Problem: they ate the slugs great. And the blue berries. And too much everything else she and I valued.
Thier eggs were great to cook with. I just could not develop a taste for their all dark meat.
Too long of article. But this site gives languages alternatives.
We’ve never has sheep. Neighbors have. They also browse woody plants new growth shoots as a preference too. Kept in small areas contained. They will strip the bark from any trees killing them. Then you understand why in sheep dense areas nothing grows but grasses. Maintenace is similar to goats.
With the right breeds and you will have milk, meat, wool and leather.
Here with goats and sheep because of large predators you need to keep guardian dogs too. Adds to the costs.
For us it will remain free range chickens. Arial and ground predator problems, yes. That makes for a problem when the few actual setting raisen hens gets killed, yes. Breed select not for pretty, or maximum eggs or maximum meat but foraging capabilities. Learn to long, slow cook the tough meats.
Once we fully location move and we will move and use bantee chickens only. They sit and hatch out, and especially mother the very best. Have the least rooster fighting problems. By far the least supplementary feed needed.
Regards
Steve unruh
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I got the hatching eggs from Myshire farms in Ohio and hatched them in my 60 year old Sears Roebuck incubator.
You could feed grass clippings, home raised meal worms etc but if you want fast growth use turkey starter or gamebird starter with at least 25% protein.
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