Kohler 15k gasoline/propane


After 15years, the Kohler is home.

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That’s a nice unit

Wish it was mine

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No reason to put this here but I needed a place since this is mostly a question for Bruce but anyone else’s imput is welcome. It deals mainly with how to deal with old gasoline. Always a problem. My truck will run on year old gas, no problem but chainsaws will not start even with non-ethanol fuel if it’s been sitting in the tank for a couple of months. Dump it and put in fresh gas, problem solved. Apparently, according to the web, there is really no way to bring gasoline back to its pristine state. I was watching an episode of Engine Masters a couple days ago and they were testing various fuels for power. They were testing on a 800 HP engine so they were using a couple more race oriented fuels. Sunoco 116 octaine. Sunoco 106 oxygenated. E-85 and straight Methanol. The testing wasn’t important to this question but the Sunoco 106 oxygenated was believed to be oxygenated by adding Methanol. I’m wondering if you have ever done or thought of doing a blend of Gas and Methanol and seeing how it would run in a engine with normal, say 8.5 to 1 CR. I’m not talking about Methanol injection. I guess this is kind of convoluted but I’m wondering if the gas could be reconstituted by adding a small amount of Methanol. At least an opinion.

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I can speak to this. I buy methanol by the barrel. I have had the opportunity to test these methanol/gasoline blends for separation in two liter clear pop bottles. Also, I have rejuvenated old gas.
So, first, Methanol will mix in gasoline. It still wants water though. As soon as it gets wet it drops out of the gasoline mixture. It appears as a cloudy liquid at the bottom of the pop bottle. Where we live, methanol should only be used as a fuel additive in the winter, to melt frozen fuel lines. Methanol releases a lot of heat when it goes into solution with water. This can thaw frozen fuel lines. Once methanol is slightly wet it will not burn.
Methanol pure is an oxygenated fuel, true. So in a lawnmower or saw, you have to richen the mixture beyond what the carb is designed to adjust for. Gotta run the choke. Thing is methanol does not like to mix with oil. And if it gets wet it floats on top of the oil. This causes the plug to get oil soaked and quit firing in a two-stroke. In a diesel it causes the water to go to the top and good fuel to go down to the pickup screen. This good as long as the fuel tank stays full. Its bad if the tank has a dedicated sediment zone in the bottom.
The funny place where methanol works great is in a push mower with a Briggs and Stratton engine that has a bad plastic carburetor. Those carbs run too rich for gasoline, but will work perfectly on pure methanol.

Tom, as long as the bad gas has no water in it, just mix it in with fresh high octane gasoline. One gallon bad to four gallons good. Or get some low compression engine (shameless Farmall H plug here) and burn it in that.

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That was another thing that was noted on the EM show was that the average gasoline carb could not be jetted out enough to work with Methanol and that there were E-85 carbs also with different jetting. I’m assuming that all flex fuel vehicles are FI.

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@tcholton717 remember napthalene mothballs? I used to add a handful to my Buick Wildcat’s gas tank.
So if you look up napthalene, you see that it disolves in alcohol. I never tried adding mothballs to gasahol. That would be an interesting experiment.

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That’s a new one to me Bruce but they are cheap. Were there any noticeable benefits?

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I don’t really remember. All I know is, I never blew up the nailhead.

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Hi Tom,
I live near Denver, about a mile above sea level. People here used to put smaller jets in carbs, to make them run clean.
I have brought two old Briggs back to life simply by putting 70% ethanol fuel in them, spinning them over to get the ethanol all the way through them and then letting them sit for three days. Then they would run with a lot of choke, After going through a 2 quart tank I couldn’t see any dirty stuff down in the tanks anymore. Just to compensate for the altitude I blend e85 with regular gasoline to make a 25% ethanol mixture. My experience is that ethanol keeps fuel systems beautifully clean. I know this doesn’t answer you question exactly, but maybe it will help a little bit.
Rindert

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Well Rindert, it helps because though it may not be the answer to that particular question It is a solution to others that folks here may encounter and sharing the results of our own explorations is the reason for people to gather in sites like this. I am only interested in ways to live life on my own terms. That means not being dependent on outside sources for that which I need or want in order to maintain myself. Wood gas is a premium example but the alternate fuel work that Bruce and others do is just as valuable because it accomplishes the same end. Each of us is working with the resources available to us. Perhaps you have a good source for vegetable oil, or waste oil. That would free you from Big Oil just as wood gas would. As I circle the drain I finally realize that I’m never going to be able to explore all the things that interest me but If you and others are doing the leg work in advance then I may have a chance to merge into your efforts.ManyThanks to all you explorers, innovators, and little engines.

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Me too, Brother. Me, too.
It ain’t so much what a fellow has done. But what a fellow leaves behind for others to build onto.
'Cause that’s what makes a Life well lived.
Steve unruh

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Thanks for the side draft propane system picture on your Wisconsin, BruceJ.

The Kawasaki V-Twin in the rider mower is a side draft carb. I do not want to do just a youtube dumb-dumb hose flow in conversion wasting propane. Something that flow-use regulates. Not dual fuel gasoline capable anymore. Propane only. Then woodgas later if the need.
I’ve hit 50 hours this mowing season now on the rider lawn mower so far. Approaching 20 gallons of pump non-ethanol gasoline used up for it and some electrical generators time. I am getting very tired of paying WA State Road tax for non-road usages.
Every month now I am filling up a few more of the 20 and 30 pound many propane bottles here.
S.U.

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This is a little small for your needs but US carburation makes their own higher quality kits.
This is for a big block clone but the Propane parts can be modified for any carb you wiling to drill holes in for an engine in the right range of 350 to 450 cc

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Thanks Wallace.
I’d been looking at a few US Carburetion youtube install videos and their Ebay sales site. Had their home site written down on a possibilities list.
I am much more familiar with the older, old OEM, Impco and Century product lines. Now seems to be defunct. Just ‘this and that’s’ being sold for collectors’ prices. Only four-cylinder forklift sized system parts still being made.

Your second US Carburation link reading, digging-in, had the info I wanted. They ARE manifold vacuum reference metering the propane! For idle. And full loaded power.

My situation is I use total annually of ~60-100 US gallons of gasoline off-road a year. Split out six-seven ways. In 11 different engines. The five 2-strokes cumulative only use up 5-8 US gallons of mixed. Leave alone on gasoline. I want the power and as long of life as possible on these Stilh engines.
The garden HD walk behind rototiller only gets used late Spring and accounts for 1/2 gallon gasoline annually. Leave it alone too.

The 8.5 hp B&S I/C wood splitter uses 5 gallons at least annually. Used daily or every other day for 200-250 days of the years. And I only generally run it at 50% to 75% power/RPM. So I could their “C” system gasoline carburetor Dual fuel convert to propane. Likely gasoline needed for starting on those below freezing days.
The lions share of use is the near 500cc 20 hp V-Twin rider lawn mower. (Please. I only want to walk-behind mow an actual fenced in 1/2 acre of near houses yards. But forced since the year 2000 to mow also another 3 1/2 acres of previous grazing and small hay fields property. “No Livestock anymore allowed in Town” new ordnance. A Political attack onto our family.)

This fourth now grasses and weeds mowing machine I am wearing out is only warmish weather used. Needs near full power to boot.
So I could try their Type 1 propane only carb gutting kit.

Later based on performance of these two ways decide which way to convert the two inverter-generators then too.

Of course. Like most all things modern US consumer-culture dumbed-numbed down. Easier $'s-wise, just to do things their way.
Personal individual freedom prices are not in just one big heroic Hurrah!, effort. You declare and assert your Freedoms from Them; and Thier Ways, in many, many little steps.
Don’t bother changing Them. Step by step change yourself.

Regards
Steve Unruh

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Can you buy off road gasoline or get a tax rebate from your state for off road use?
Have you looked into it ?

Profane ( I spelled that right in my own opinion ) is a pain inn the arse to carry cylinders of or get a delivery of.

There are the other option too such as replacement diesel engines as your fleet ages out of use and buying coloured fuel again to save money.

Ya goats are good, but bylaws are a pain.
I have by bi-law officer come see me a few times a year because a neighbour does not like me…
And I have dogs…
The bi-law guys are pretty good they seldom cause me grief but they have to come see because it the law you know.

Hmm…
Maybe you could buy dog licences and say they self identify as hounds…

Ya killers.
You can see it in their eyes.

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Hey Wallace,
No propane is not the most perfect IC engine fuel. I agree.
As David Baillle pointed out to me in the past it does not like winter Canadian frozen weather.

I have still two diesel engines. They certainly do not like cold weather either. Grew up with family’s one-tractors farms. (Some-one having to wadge slaving away on a day/graveyard job for the base money) Gasoline the first choice for one-tractor farms. Deisel the far less frequent 2nd choice for a one-tractor farm.
Grew up after 14 years old working my counties Family dairy farms. Income for all, if all worked to support a family. Three to five tractors then. Some big old gasoline tractors, then relegated down to doing light work. Small newer gasoline tractors doing light work. Propane only tractors doing light working. The heavy working always done with diesel tractors. Tracked crawler work always with diesel. Farm trucks a mix of gasoline and diesel.
The gasoline could always be made to run with just on-farm fiddling. Diesels: not so much. Down for sent out heavy-duty starters rebuilding, and specialist injector and pumps rebuilding.

Nope. Washington State give s no rebate tax relief for off road gasoline usage to anyone. Farm-offroad color dyed diesel yes. Propane never road taxed. Roads driving a dedicated propane vehicle requires a State Patrol inspection to verify the vehicle no longer able to gasoline fuel. Tanks, hoses and all such, must be removed. THEN an annual flat $400-600 excise tax added to your vehicle relicensing.
Soon this additional system would be added to the EV’s too. Should have happened all along already!!

Propane for some of my using small engines primarily for the long term storage capability. And then ahead on SAFE stored fuel use flexibility like in refrigeration, hot water heating, and cooking.
Lighting imho should always be electric LED.
S.U.

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Only rebate we get is on boat fuel usage that I am aware off

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You can buy off road gas and diesel in mn. But you still pay some sort of sales tax unless you fill out some forms for exemption.
The truck stop up the road has off road diesel i get for the skid loader

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I stop at the reservation for gas last week.
Generally not something but with gasoline blow past 10 dollars a gallon I will support my local tribal gasbar lol.

I noticed a young native girl in TDI jetta roll right up to the coloured fuel pump and fill her car.
That’s very brash and I thought, wow no one is saying nothing.
I drove home with about 20 gallons for 1.78 a litre.
I realize I am skirting some taxes, but WOW you need to have a lot off guts so so obliviously break a law and run coloured fuel on a plated car

high prices have not stopped people from driving.
Not like how quiet it was during COVID at any rate

Another observation:
The Canadian Dollar used to be a petro dollar.
As fuel prices rose so did the value against the USD.
Last time we were pretty well insulated by the fuel spike with the most expensive I recall was about 1.50 for diesel and 150USD barrel of oil ( I had a diesel car back when I thought that was a ecological good choice ).

Now that does not happen.
There seems to be very little motivation on the oil producers to drill or increase productions hence the dollar remains where it is.
My theory is they see a peak in oil demand and have no desire to invest in new development when they can just create a small artificial shortage and reap the profits now.

And I wonder how the feds are going to pay the bills when the oil royalties drop again if we are not making up for that in volume.
Just thoughts…

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