göran, is something known what cyclones are most effective…or most flexible with high or low rpm?
in the swiss book from tilman are shown also the bahco and lux cyclones in cross section cut design (your pictures are better) and also a cyclon from humboldt deutz, but not so easy to understand the built in the designs…it works with a change of direction of the gas stream, for making fall down the dust particles…have you a design from this type?
6 Likes
Honestly, if you want to really get into it. They know so much more about filtration now, then back even 50 years ago. You will be better served to get newer information. It looks like some people have software to help with the calculations but there are textbooks on the subject like:
https://www.amazon.com/Gas-Cyclones-Swirl-Tubes-Principles/dp/3642094163
which might be found online in pdf or in a used bookstore or garage sale for a dollar.
7 Likes
These old Paxman systems actually had an insulated fire tube: “The GENERATOR consists of a cylindrical steel shell lined with firebricks”. This interesting to me. Al Frick’s 1998 Ranger has a fire tube insulated with ceramic wool, and he is able to take off from a stop without hesitation. Presumably his gasifier didn’t cool down while at idle.
And Paxman had a water “Vaporiser, which made steam for enriching the gas”. This also, seems to me, points to the fact that their insulated fire tube contained useful heat very well.
The Paxman system did NOT have a heat exchanger! Apparently they didn’t think they needed one. Perhaps that insulated fire tube just worked so well that it wasn’t needed.
Rindert
8 Likes
Hi Giorgio, about cyclones, this was about what was known as the best in these old times, i’ve read somewhere that the older types was about only 80% efficient compared to the type we know today, the tall, slender type we use, was in that time used mostly for fluid separation, and for gases with constant flow, and constant particle size and flow.
The older type caused less pressure drop though, but collected most the bigger particle sizes, these was seen as a way to get less work on cleaning the fabric filters or wet scrubbers, by taking care of some of the dust, easy, just to empty the cyclone some twice a day.
As you may notice on the old cyclones, they are pretty wide, this made them much less efficient on low/partial load, the Hesselman cyclone was enormous, only working on full load, on lower gas speed it only helped as a “drop-box”.
The BACHO model had a spring-loaded “flap” at the inlet, to make the inlet area adapt for varying gas speed, these seemed to have worked quite well, and was used in some industrial equipment in to the 1980s.
Edit: if your filter often needs cumbersome cleaning, a cyclone makes the cleaning work easier.
A small cyclone collects more over the various gas demands, but creates a pressure drop.
A big cyclone creates less pressure drop, but collects a lot less dust, and mostly the bigger stuff.
Edit2: me and cyclones? I used them on my first builds, because “it should be that way”, and they are fun to build, and look cool.
But today i skip them, they add a pressure drop, and another service point.
But if i had to use, for example: a too small fabric filter, because of space limitations, i should probably add a cyclone to relieve the filter some.
12 Likes
I saw in that book Sean’s link was about that they used cyclones in series to catch more dust. Never crossed my mind that would be possible, in theory you could have a bigger cyclone with a smaller after to catch as much as possible. I know it would probably have too much resistance to be used before an ICE. But historically in gasification, did they ever have that? Has anyone seen cyclones in series?
6 Likes
yes and they work. Shopvac’s are cyclone filters, then if you add the 5 gallon bucket filter like you would with drywall, that is a second cyclone. Series is used industrially.
you can probably also do a large first filter, then split it with a y into two parallel filters or vice versa. Depending on what you have for volume/airflow requirements.
10 Likes
I believe SMP tried with two cyclones in series, but it was not worth the pressure drop.
I’ve also seen a bigger Källe gasifier with a extra cyclone, in series with the special built-in one.
Maybe a solution would be two parallell cyclones, with possibility to shut one of them on low load?
7 Likes
No no no, I was not planning on having cyclones in series, I was more wondering if it was done historically out of curiosity, I haven’t seen any pictures of multiple cyclones other then parallell ones.
I have not yet decided on cyclones wheather it will be single, dual or a thien baffle. But that will be on my thread, I didn’t mean to discuss my build on Giorgios thread. I was just curious historically
Have to give that a thought but I don’t want to create more stuff to keep track of while driving.
7 Likes
More
H.O wood
Volvo, charcoal
Woodgasifier in the front
Svedlund, charcoal, with 3 nozzles in a ring
Trunk mounted Svedlund charcoal
Some tilt-able gasifiers
Imbert, wood
Filter cleaning on a Lion KC, charcoal
Hesselman, wood, on a bus
During the war, there was specially arranged cleaning parking spots, beside the roads, with garbage cans for woodbags, and ashes.
Ford Mercury with Lion wood cart, this car and gasifier was special built for racing (!)
Held the 1941 speed record.
18 Likes
Here’s some old cyclones, as we talked about them.
Here is a BACHO cyclone, missing it’s dust collecting “bucket”
Look at the size of this thing.
A LUX cyclone, standing upside-down, also missing the dust-bucket.
15 Likes
Heres some interesting photos, im going to try to get some better pic’s soon.
This is a demonstration truck, with 4 working gasifiers, 2 Janka, 1 Hesselman and 1 woodgas cart, maybe Lion, or Beram.
There was valves to switch between gasifiers, so the test-driving customer could form an opinion, which gasifier would fit him best.
17 Likes
8 Likes
10 Likes
13 Likes
Giorgio, thank you for posting the info graphic. I’m certainly no linguist, but after a lot of searching I think this translates to English as:
Automoviles con Gasogeno (Gas-powered Cars)
Alemania (Germany): 155,000
Suecia (Sweden): 128,000
Francia (France): 65,000
Finlandia (Finland): 15,000
Dinamadca (Denmark): 10,000
Italia (Italy): 9,000
Noruega (Norway): 9,000
Suiza (Switzerland): 7,700
Belgica (Belgium): 3,000
Datos tomados de la revista suiza “Revue Automobile” de 1944. (Data taken from the Swiss magazine “Revue Automobile” of 1944.)
Which documents 401,700 vehicles. Fascinating!
9 Likes