Plasma gasification of Charcoal

Small Engines Charcoal Gasification
#1

This topic is about plasma gasification of charcoal only
to honor the work and research of Marco Cioni who paved the road with his innovative thinking in this field.

Can it be done ? yes
Can you build a plasma gasifier ? yes
is it viable ? who knows… :stuck_out_tongue:
is it fun ? yes
Thinking about plasma gives a headache ? yes, definitively
Is it hot ? yes, very hot
can it be used in a car/motorcycle ? yes.

starting simple:
to gasify charcoal you’ll need 2 main “things”
1= heat
2= Charcoal

so, simple experiment: use a plasma torch in an bucket filled with charcoal and extract the gas…

actually, i am building something like that… (no joke) only waiting for the plasma torch promised to me :stuck_out_tongue:
if i survive the first trials, i will keep posting my progress here…

all other idea’s to generate plasma heat are welcome.

just remember… heat by plasma and charcoal is the topic.
we want to find out about the energy balance, input vs output, so please check your numbers…

#2

Warning, if this thread goes any further into theoretical discussion it will be closed. No debates please.

#3

Please… theory and practice are not accepted by this forum?
without theory no practice theory=ideas without ideas= no world
Too many limitations destroy the society and force the minds to isolate

#4

“Too many limitations destroy the society and force the minds to isolate”

Too many heated debates will destroy this community. Please respect my decision.

If you’d like to expound on your research and theory, you can do so easily on a free weblog or other website of your choosing, and link to them here.

If you have a physical unit to demonstrate, post freely. We’d love to get a look at it and see how it works. Just skip the theory for now, please.

#5

Well Gentlemen
Before this also spins out too far . . . .
We true Americans/Canadian immigrants left the Old Contries bad ethics of Might Is Right evoled into the “modern” ethics of “a spirted debate will distill out the truths” behind far, far behind.

Will a hot sword applied to the tongue really learn you the truth? Of course not! Neither will forcing a person onto the the Rack, the Wheel.
“Debate” involes more than just pure logic and reason; but is a means to apply advanced wording skill-sets and manipulation skills-sets. Not a game of chess.
Cut throat poker.
Last man standing wins. As a warrior I am very good at winning. Won many times debating. Only later in reflection was it really worth it?? Ussually not.
Do not believe? Watch.

The Drive On Wood is really a volentary joined social network set up by Wayne Kieth and Chris Seanz to promote an individuals making, and using wood fuels for individual energy freedom.
So step in here on any sub-forum is like stepping in to their house, their home.
For most of us active posting members this is a place to learn and exchage on Today, Practical: wood makes energy. Our church, our fraternal club so to speak.
Enter any of these if the ethic is not to wear shoes, or a hat inside - take your damn shoes off! Doff that hat!
Here in the good old USofA I and many others active here for four decades have now watch the debaters, the intilectualizers lie-spinning alternative fuels; wasting air, time and public/investors moneys.

This is Rome. We the individual energy Freedom folk here are the Romans.
Comply or leave. And do not let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Most Respectfully Submitted
Washington State Steve Unruh - woodgasifing every day now for space heating.

1 Like
#6

Chris,

I am very much interested in this topic… Are we not allowed to explore theory here? Or are you just laying down the law about heated debates?

Troy

#7

I can follow the viewing point of Chris and Steve, heated debates are disastrous for community’s
They are like the ebola virus, very infectious… and have a high killing rate…

I enjoy the “building first and talking later” thing, but do like to take advices from others concerning that build…
(avoiding mistakes already been made by others, by listening to their experiences )

#9

Steve,

I have been respectful on every single post I have ever posted here. I have not engaged in name-calling, or swear words, or the belittlement of anyone else.

But your last post feels like a jab at me… For what? What did i do or say that offended you?

Troy

#10

Yes, i can honestly say that i did not use you.
Further more, if you follow my work from a to z, you’ll find no hidings, no hold backs in sharing my knowledge towards anybody here or elsewhere.
All money spent, up to this day, is from my pocket only, even for the development and buildings here at the school…
The patent is , as already stated, for the benefit of the school-education, so is the name registration on the patent application.
My work here in Thailand and for the school has been and still is done without pay.
The only benefit i have is a bed next to a working space and i work 7/7.

Troy Martz is using knowledge which is freely available and also makes it available for others.
His experiments and experiences with his builds are made available to the other here on the forum.

Amongst all other who actualy build, he fully qualify for being a real DOW er… He share his knowledge with good intents.
He does not attack others and their builds.

Only few people understand that also he wants to be a teacher, being a student right now…

He build and he share with us… what is there more to want ?
I have learned to build the simple fire from Garry Gilmore, did find out other possibility’s and shared them…

gathering knowledge and sharing knowledge… whats wrong with that ?

So to keep it cool:
I think you see it wrong.

#11

Since i believe in Troy Martz and he’s actually building similar to my idea’s…
I give him the “secret of the patent” for free…

#12

Theory goes best with a practical demonstration. As I invited Marco, we’d all like to see his unit and hear about exactly what makes it work. In that context some theory is OK. Explaining how a real unit works is good and welcome here.

Theory divorced from practical use is getting dangerously close to “armchair engineering”. Or “Bench racing”. Point is, all the theories in the world can’t turn a pound of wood into rotating shaft power. Only real world gasifiers can do that. Try to avoid the distractions along the route.

#13

Someone said it could be done, so now i will try to build a working system and run some engines with it

I have added only 3 pages from 9

the sweet spot is at 4000°C, using a home available plasma cutter, fed with Co2, to give it a “mythbusters” shot

next some pictures from the items i am going to use for this build and a drawing

7.5_carbon_dioxide_and_electrical_arc_processes_-_part1_Seite_1.png1024×724 157 KB

7.5_carbon_dioxide_and_electrical_arc_processes_-_part1_Seite_3.png1024×724 171 KB

7.5_carbon_dioxide_and_electrical_arc_processes_-_part1_Seite_9.png1024×720 352 KB

#14

Wow Koen
That looks like some serious engineering for a back yard engineer !
Keep posting so that we can give different ideas and perspectives on a piece of equipment like that!
I love it !
Thanks patrick

#15

Thanks for the compliment, but sorry, this is actually not mine …
It comes from this Russian scientist / presentation at the euro parliament 2011
I have been involved in some other projects and other aspects from plasma gasifying in the past.
( have done some complicated designs yes )

I really want to build a “backyard” design
First calculations gives me a power needed for the Plasma at 1000 watts / hour
Trying to balance that with a power to be generated at the shaft…

as i said, building is not boring… trying to get this small and mobile in a useful way…

#16

The theory is very important for open the minds. However the example posted from Koen is an plasma torch that use some of electricity… very complicated design and high cost electric equipment. In commerce you can find similar application if you buy an air plasma cutter. Mine system do not use electricity but use just an catalyst and air in special conditions. Let me present to you … I’m an italian inventor… with 10 years of experience in hydrogen and new renewable energies. I can’t submitted to you the reactor design in details because actually is in patent pending but I can help you for add modifications on your own old gasifier including the water dissociation on charcoal. Wood is the future fuel of world but need an new technology for extract completely the energy accumulated inside, this type of new gasification mode is the only solution and as result you obtain charcoal and you can use that with CO2 or water steam.

#17

I would like to try a design by your idea of generating plasma. No need for anything what is patent pending.
The plasma torch can be the second choice. (That torch will arive soon anyway)
As usual, no budgets available but my pocket money…
in a later stage we can dialog about adding or new building something with catalyst. But for starters i want to bust the myth as described by this russian professor.
if anybody else can support the combined knowledge, welcome.
we will keep it a very friendly dialog altogether.

#18

The plasma torch that will arrive is a home use one, 5 to 25 amps. Normaly driven with air. I want to use co2 dough…

#19

Plasma torch cutter is an good example… air compressed to some bar is processed with capacitor discharge trought an nozzle.
In my plasma reactor no pressure is used and oxygen is consumed for obtain pure N2. N2 is transformed in an plasma flame thanks to catalyst and temperature.
The CO2 is transformed in CO when in contact with the plasma flame.

#20

Marco,

Here are three of your quotes:

“Mine system do not use electricity but use just an catalyst …”

“I can’t submitted to you the reactor design in details”

“In my plasma reactor …”

Is there a prototype of YOUR system (not somebody else’s) that you can provide a video demonstration of? No details necessary. A simple flare or, even better, a demonstration of the system driving an internal combustion engine would be great. “Hi! My name is Marco, and I’d like to show you my plasma gasifier that uses no external energy inputs.” Something along those lines.

We don’t want to know your proprietary details, but we would like to see some substance. When I go to a restaurant, I don’t want to just read the menu, I want the meal that goes with it . . .

AT in TX

#21

We can not forget, here on Dow we need to build what we say we can :wink:
So a charcoal gasifier by plasma is what i will build now.

With your help and advice, without touching your invention, it must be possible…

If we keep talking about your idea, at least you can make a compilation explanation from your flaring video ?
As Alex asked for, no details…

meanwhile, for the actual build of the charcoal - plasma gasifier, we continue to make solid plans, sketches, ways to connect things, so i can start building…

starting with the cutting torch; distance to keep from walls, how tall the flame is going to be, flowrate for the gas, amps needed