The DriZzleR - open top gasifier

Hi Woodgasers,
first of all sorry for my bad english. Or maybe call it “Sauerkraut english”. :slight_smile:

the normal startup everytime is done with charcoal to form a pretty hot bed for the flaming pyrolisis. You need the charcoal only for the first load or if you did a complete cleanout. In this Video you see a normal quick startup after a cleanout with fresh charcoal inside.

If this charcoal bed is not formed of charcoal completely glowing red and yellow, there will be tar like in every other system. The Tar cannot be cracked cause the temperature is to low.

Jonathan can you post some pictures or testrun videos of your DriZzleR? I think there will be some problems with your system.

A lot of people has build a DriZzleR with not problems and very good results. You will see them in our Blog http://www.thedrizzler.org

regards Pascal Kirchner

Welcome PascalK and LucV to the Small Engine Users Corner of the DOW.
Both of your english’s are fine, and very understandable.
We have others active here where english is a second lanquage: K.V. Loken, Dutch John and Max gasman just to name three. Helps us native Americans to speak better language.
Us actually US’ing-tons will still torture with old imperial measures to the horror of our modernized Canadian friends.
ArvidO’s began this topic so by the roughed out site courtesies here he gets to direct this topic.
Plus the fuel types your system is suitable for is more up his alley versus my only chunked site grown wood insistence now. Ha! “alley” Hard to break American english habits. “his wood fuel type specialty”
He also does a fine job highlighting out StephenA’s fuel specific work too.

Please do use this topic to explain and display your system type as you wish.
No pressure or insistence on this.

I reviewed JonathanT’s post and I see this as more an opportunity for you both to highlight your system’s advantages than a criticism needing defending.
JohnathanT you at least owe now some stills pictures of your attempt. Your 5000 watt system posts seem to indicate that you moved on into another direction??
CallumH. I’ve never seen them offer this system up as a road mobile system solution. Stationary.

LucV unfortunatly others using the wrong fuel types, and doing their own “better idea” improvements is a reality all systems designers such as Doug Williams, S.E. Werner, Mike LaRosa, Jim Mason, Ben Peterson, and now Wayne Kieth have had to be challenged by. I am sure Msr. Imbert is rolling in his grave over some to the botch-jobs (American), bodges (British) that are being done to his dedicated intended chunked wood systems with fine particalized “all-biomass” fuels that are not even wood based.

I will remind all that this IS THE Small Engine USERS Corner of the Drive on Wood.
The only thing that impresses here is engine fueling verifiable produced shaft power.
And this I will sub-forum enforce.
ArvidO knows to always do this here.

Best Regards to All
Steve Unruh; SEU host of the DOW

Glad to see this corner being used again Steve.

Hi Steve.
thank you for your words of welcome.
Is the biggest problem at a wood gasification of almost 24/7 runtime is the fuel. It takes a lot of fuel. You can not create with blocks even these amounts. It’s like business end with a hydrogen car. If you have no gas station near you is as stupid. Therefore, only two fuels come into question. Wood chips and pellets. Both are standardized and can be ordered. Both also can produce itself. Wood chips and pellets also contain fines. Fines are a no go for a Imbert. A sorting of fines takes time and an even larger area.
I have often seen the videos of homemade chunkern and ask myself who produces well over 8 tons of it. During WW2 there were these blocks as standard fuel. To bring an old system into the future, it is sufficient in my opinion not just copying the old system. But to adapt to today’s realities. I too have experimented initially with Imbert clones. Who has not done that? But I quickly realized that this system is not used for a cogeneration unit with this fuel.

We are only at the beginning. But the test results are truly amazing.

This part of the forum is indeed reserved the smaller gasifiers. The true scale of a wood gasification is considered as still as small? up to 10KW?

could someone also the title of the post change from “drizler” to “DriZzleR”?
I think people from other nations might also find the DOW forum better with the DriZzleR.

regards Pascal Kirchner
http://www.thedrizzler.org

Hello PascalK.
Indeed this Small Engine Users section is reserved for small wood gasification engine running applications.
Size is defined here:


“Small Engines to Woodgas Run”
Here defined from small single cylinder engines to up to four cylinder ~2500cc engine at a synchronous 1500/1800 RPM of 33-38 horsepower (25-28 kWme).

AdminChris reads all posts and will no doubt change the title as you request.

I do not have, or operate an Imbert, or an Imbert clone. A direct blown hot char contact to metals is so 1940’s passe’ Left behind by the Sweeds with the SMP. Left behind by the FInns with their VACOLA. Left behind by Americans with the PEGASUS.
Mine is a Victory model all SS hearth. This hearth has been fueled on chipped, chunked, densified and even stick form wood. It has been previously operated on all different forms of agricultural wastes fuels such as corn stover, corn cobs, actual dried corn kernels. Fruit pits, nut shells. And more.
On chunk wood it requires no automation at all. It only needed for these more expensive difficult fuels.

I say expensive because these others all require much, much more energy and human hours to process into that standardized automation capable handling usability.

You use a very strong english word in “stupid”. Ha! Ha! Very applicable I agree with hydrogen engine fueling dreams! The real energy density is in the carbon bonds.
Stupid defines as “lacking intelligence and common sence” and “dazed, unable to think clearly”.

Home DYI 24/7 production of electricity and heat makes no sense. This does not in any way follow useage patterns. I lite two wood stove fires in my house daily for heat and whole house ventilation, and then mass thermal cycle handily in between. 4 months this uses 68 kg of stick form wood daily. 5 more months this drops to less at 45 kg of stick form wood used daily.
This takes no automation or electrical input at all.
If I was to replace all of my grid use electricity with woodgas made electrical power it would take also just a twice a day, four hour batch cycles of 50 kg of wood total. Chunked, or now fine split stickwood form. No automation needed for the gasifier hearth and hopper. Yes then I must be a bit the DYI electrician too.
IF I was to replace all of my annual bought out driving fuel with woodgas vehicle power it would take the same annual wood use as these other two in addition to have to supply.
PascalK my wife and I own a small personal forest. This is by intent. A 20 year hard worked for investment to own.
I have more wood falling down and rotting than I use.
What would be incredibly stupid for me, would be to very equipment, and human energy intensive chip or grind and than compress densify it for use.
I am not an exception.
I correspond with many in the US, Canada, Australia, new Zealand, Belgium, Norway, Finland, Sweden, France, Peru, Ecuador and other actual trees growing areas in similar bulk wood situations.
And many of us in these areas are very, very familiar with the actual energy requirements to turn standing trees and limbs into a consumer supplied screened standardized chipped and pelletized products. We work in these industries.
At home we do it the easy way with bulk form woods for fuels.

A WK system is also very far away from being an Imbert or an Imbert clone.
There are now at 50 fellows who are making annually far more than 8 tons of chunked woods for their vehicles.
And a few hundred who have been doing bulk wood also annually for lifetimes for wood fuel space heating.
You would have to join the Premium side to see these.

Is the daily personal work ethic lost in the old world now?
A picture of the ~9 cord (~33 cubic meters) of wood harvested in two days for our tow houses of winter heating.
4 men x 6 hours each for 2 days = 48 manhours.
3 liters of 2 cycle mixed chainsaw fuel.
5 liters of regular gasoline in the wood splitter four stroke.
2 liters of diesel fuel to haul and dump it.
I can show pictures of 2013, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008 wood piles after I went digital camera.
I personally do this every year Pascal for the last 50 of my life. My Father did this. My wife’s Father did this to 82 years. Keeps you young.
Sitting in taken for granted always the same, mind numbing, space heat will kill you younger with inactivity and boredom.
Truely: working with wood does make one free.

Regards
Steve Unruh


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Listen fellows,

I did not want to turn this into somekind of pissing contest. I am not saying the drizzler is a bad design. I have build two previous open top designs before the last gasifier system that I posted on this website. I did use the words drizzler hybrid. I never said that I used pellets. I used small woodchunks. It took a while before gas was made. I believe it was because the air penetrated too well and burned up the gas. I do not have pictures of these experiments because these units were scrapped literally and are gone. I had actual experience but I am NOT the expert. With the opening below eye level, smoke will rise up in your face if there is a lack of suction. If a puffback occurs, the embers will go straight up in your face if you are standing there looking at it. On my last build, I had a puffback when the unit was sucking all the air through the chimney, the puffback went up and out the chimney, safely away from me. Imagine if the chimney was not there, where would the puffback go? I apologize for offending anyone, I was just offering some insight and suggestions to maybe make the drizzler better. I am not the drizzler expert, refer to LUK if you want one of those!

I like the DriZzleR design for what i am doing…it takes wood chips which i have free to beer money access to with just a phone call to the local arbourist/tree service folks…and seems to have no possibility of problems with tar causing a bridge in a stationary application…no hopper, no tar to help bridges form.

I fully agree with Steve U about the folly of actually chipping wood specifically to fuel a gasifier(or anything else that could realistically be fired/run on wood with the least amount of processing possible)…but if some other idiot has already chipped it and is just going to dump it anyway then this gasifier seems like a good way to use it for some useful purpose.

The only other gasifier that i know of that runs well on Chips is the Victoria type that Mr Olsen is rather proficient at making…and i don’t know enough about them to form any opinions on wether they have any hopper bridgeing issues with them

Callum

Hello Callum,

Please don’t call me Mr… :slight_smile: Arvid works as that is my name and I don’t hold any titles.

I don’t usually have any bridging issues unless I put stupid sized wood into it… things like the ends of 2x4s of things that look like pencils. my hopper is purpose built to help control bridging.

First of all,
Hello to All DOW-ers. Normaly I post only on two sites. “The Yahoo woodgas forum” and the German “holz gibt gas” forum.

After reading a DOW post from Jonathan I felled I must react on some on his, in my opinion, untrue conclusions. I tried to register in on DOW to answer Jonathan directly. For some reasons the registration took a very long time and impulsive and emotional man I am, I reacted elswhere beeing sure the message would finaly reach JT.
Now, as some time has passed I feel My reaction was maybe a bit too impulsive and too emotional, and in case If I hurt anybody’s feelings I apologise.

But to put things straith,

Jonathan,
Unfortunatly you did not opened your first negative post with the sentance. “I Tried to build a DriZzleR based hybryd” but my drizzler copy will not flare. It smokes, has tar problems…etc…etc.
If you had written so, I or Pascal or some of the other DriZzleR builders would had reacted with an offer to help you out, because it was obvious, for all DriZzleR builders, that You did something very wrong or you did not understood the concept. Seeing your poor design did not properly worked, you blamed the DriZzleR itself (not the hybrid) and wrote very affirmative.

I quote…
The drizzler is a design that will work but it needs a couple of changes to make it work really well. I have tried this design twice with limited success. With the open top, you HAVE to use a dense fuel like pellets to establish a proper char bed or it takes FOREVER to get flammable gas. Secondly, with the open top below your eye level, if there is not suction being applied or at shutdown, this thing will smoke in your face and create a thick fog at ground level. This makes it hard to put any kind of roof over this thing. However, if you put a tall feed hopper on it, this would keep the smoke out of your face.

Therefor I made a demonstration video where it is clearly seen that non of this problems you mention are apearing in a well build Drizzler. Whatever systems you build you should never had called them “A DriZzleR”

For those who beleive only their own eyes, The video where I show; the DriZzleR flares very fast on woodchips, does not smoke, has no tar issues and can be safely come to an inmediate stop, can be found here

Indeed you also mentioned you build a second non working system and called that a “hybryd drizzler”. Again no succes. Sure, your hybrid also had nothing to do with a well build DriZzleR.

I quote;
My last design was a drizzler type hybrid. Had a chimney on it to suck in air and to releave a puffback flash safely above your head level. The lid was a screw on 4 inch pipe cap and nipple. It produced flammable gas but there were tar issues and I also made the grate non replaceable or serviceable. The grate was thin sheetmetal.

I wonder If you had build a non working bad copy of a Wayne Keith and without asking any further information you would afirmative write in DOW. A WK design does not work, It can hardly flare…produces tar…is unsafe.etc…etc.
Maybe Mister Wayne is not so emotional as I am, but sure he or others would have wrote to you some words of correction.
Next time better refer to your builds as “Jonathan tries” If you do not get to work them properly, You will ruin nobody’s reputation but yours .

OK this said. Lets go onwards and forwards. There is still a lot of work to do.

Luk

Jonathan and Callum thank you for these last posts.

PascalK. to see where on the DOW that this topic is located look for “Forums” in any of one of three places:
Top of this topic in the blue Forum -> Small Engine Users Corner
Top of any page at the top black function bar with Forums in white
Any screen scrolled down at the lower left hand side bar will be an open-able blue “Forums”
Cursor over and click open up any one of these and you will see the forums available to you at your membership level. I think you will have 4-5 available to access. A lot of small system activity in the Charcoal Gasifiers forum sub-section too. Full memebership open up ~5 more forums with talking exchanging dedicated to WK system builders/users. More activity there as “out here in public view”. Many not interested in WK building/using/developeing choose not to pay-in to this level. That is fine too.

LucV I downloaded and watched you rebuttal video to three minutes. This was an hour out of my life committed to you and your concerns. I then screen shot skipped ahead to the end. Unfortunately no audio in that. Unfortunately I could not clearly see your shut down to cooling off system performance.
You speak english well sir.
You are obviously very dedicated and sincere with you systems development.
My hats off to both you and Pascal as appearing to have gone personal finance with your efforts and not buying into public moneys control and spin-lies.
Pascal has asked for DriZleR to be properly written to allow for Net search-abilty. O.K. I will. You can see that John Stout and Callum did.
Now I in return ask you to edit correct your video with the properly spelled out “Drive” for this same reason.
And since you did drag in ALL of the DOW into your blogging in your written summery request that you add the link:


so viewers can directly source read and make their own unemotional judgments.

This next is not a request.
I have reviewed this whole topic string. I fail to see out of multiple comments by John Stout, Danny Cox, Brian Hughes, Terry Lavictorie, Callum Hoffman and even Arvid Olsen himself why you chose to take offense and even derogate Johnathan True’s name on open Net video broadcast. Flinging shit on him splatters you too.
To give actual true names is a membership DOW requirement. To have that name NOT then be farmed and taken out derogatorily on open Net broadcast is a DOW membership protection. This is not the repp. site or even YahooWoodgas. Their ownerships/moderators enjoy and encourage blood sports to drive up thier sites posts/views counts. Here on the DOW we like it peaceful with civil exchanging.
Take out his name from your broadcast.
This is not a request but a membership protection demand.

Steve Unruh
Yes I know much about wood chip using too.

Thanks SteveU

Steve Unruh makes a very important point. You are (all) welcome to discuss, defend and correct mistakes about any systems. But personal attacks will not be tolerated on DOW.

Jonathan was mistaken in his assessment of the DriZzleR, and even apologized - the response he received was derogatory and over the top. This type of negative posting will not win you any friends, Mr Luk. You have now publicly embarrassed Mr True far beyond the scope of his remarks. Using his name in your video was uncalled for. An “anonymous person” would have sufficed.

I will add to Steve’s request, that you please make the Youtube response “Unlisted”, so that it is limited to the scope of this DOW thread. That brings it back into an appropriate response level. To leave it public will continue to draw attention to a mistake which has already been apologized for and (I hope) soon forgotten.

Steve,

I will remove the whole video. But I think you should not speak in name of Jonathan. Although I reacted maybe a bit too pissy on his acusations he seems to have enough guts to take some hard yelling. Rarely seen these day’s where most have lon toe’s. In that Behaevier Jonathan deserves full respect and I take humble my hat off for jonathan. I argumented he argumented but he reacted not cowardly and did not ran of the discusionfield.Aagain my hat off for Jonathan.
In my opinion. I one comes on the net commenting others peoples work one should be able to take the heat. If you can not stand that heat then stay out of the kitchen.
Ok in a few second video will be removed

Thank you Luk. This is the honorable thing to do.

Let’s all move on from this shall we?

Thank you, Steve and Chris. Onward.

Thanks ALL
Moving on.
PascalK as the CHP half of your team I’d like to invite you to present your DrizZleR system to the 1000+ guys on this site:
www.microcogen.info
Main page scroll down to Fuels Alternative section for the “Methane, Propane, Producer Gas” board. Best to start a new specific topic.
They will have a slow several day response sign up time to join up and do this.
Theses guys love electronics, automation, and true microcognen systems.
Ha! I could just never get any weaned off of too easy dino and vegi oil fuels to do any documented woodgasing that were not already doing it.
I still show as a board moderator there. Not to worry. I did my turn, tried to resign and retire and recommended Bruce Jackson as a replacement. And he loves a good hot kitchen, is widely read and can do maths and lives and breaths off grid.
You can use my name as a members recommendation endorsement.
Regards
Steve Unruh

Hi Steve.
Thank you.
But I’m not interested to post there.
In OUR team there is no half part of the team. Our DriZzleR team is a team in the real word of the meaning.

regards
Pascal Kirchner
http://www.thedrizzler.org

regards
Pascal Kirchner

Good Morning PascalK
Of course where you would choose to promote your system, or not, is wholly your choice.

I have found in Life in all things it is best to be practical. These means hard nosed accepting the reality of any given situation.
Just in this topic string LucV clearly said that he did the chipped wood developing and that you did the pelltized fuel developing. In the past months as ArvidO has put up links to your system site blog and youtube links as I have veiwed these, again quite clearly stated there by LukV it was you doing then IC engine system testing. Not specifically stated but also in those presentations it was you doing and expressing the Combined Heat and Power interest and development of your joint system. You even presented this in your post response to me here above.

In a team the members have different interests, experiences, strengths and weaknesses. I my two day winters heating wood harvested pictures above on the first day one of the four was a 17 year old boy. We “teamed” to get the best results giving him enough equipment usage exposure to grow him a bit, and make him happy, but he the young strong horse did the hardest lifting work. 2nd day with the 6;30 AM call he begged off as “sick”. A diifernt 40 year old friend substited in then. A real go-getter saw cutter. By then the oldest and most steady experienced, my brother-in-law had by then too many sore joints so we created a job for him just operating a hydraulic lever handle. Very critical job. Fingers and hand are at risk. And I as always was the do-anything perceived-as-needed glue to smooth out and make the whole team of individuals function for the maximum benefit to all. Then I was the main chunks thrower. Ha! And I bought and paid for the lunches. It was my wood.

So you with the interest in engines and CHP and the steady nature would do very well; and be received very well, on the MicroCoGen.

It will be my choice to continue to treat you, and LUKV as distinctly unique individuals. This is what is most practical.

Regards
Steve Unruh

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Any news on this design? the blog about it seems dead?

Anyone that have used one in a automotiv application?

It apears to have ended. Also for the holzgibtgas forum.

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