The importance in understanding gas proportions

Small Engines Charcoal Gasification
#1

Hi everybody,

I did find it rather strange not finding information about the proportions of the gas we use in gasification. Caloric values , yes, heating values yes, but none are refering to what we need to know; how much are the values in volumetric perspective ? and what are their influences on the performance ?

Since it is a great importance to know how we can make big differences in the qulity of the gas with just few adjustments or modifications, i am starting this topic.

feel free to comment :slight_smile:

The first pic i did find is Wikipedia in german, but i will start translating it, believe me it is quit important to understand it :slight_smile:

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#2

A link to a very interesting article, please note the descriptions of the early gasses and how they manufactured the gas with the improved indirect method…

#3

Good Morning Mr. Van Looken and welcome to the site.

Yesterday morning I made a reply and then deleted it because it could have been misinterpreted as bragging or boasting . And I hope this doesn’t sound like boasting .

I think knowing the chemistry of wood gas could make one a better builder and operator of a gasifier but I don’t think it is a necessity. If a potential builder doesn’t clearly understand the chemistry he can still build and operate a gasifier. I hope no one gets frustrated with the chemistry and numbers and decides not to build. There are several on the site that are driving daily and I doubt that most clearly understands all the chemistry including myself.

Here in the US we have a sports logo ( Nike I think ) . Just Do It

!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZaSfgcSwiA

Thanks
Wayne

#4

Good evening here, since we appear to be on the opposite part of the world :slight_smile:

Wayne,

“Just do it” is the perfect way to see it and at least thats what i admire.

Neither i do understand all the in’s and out’s of proper gasification, but i would like to contribute with a little knowledge to convince the rest of the world to follow your footsteps.All your work has been paving the path for the future and more people should choose that path.

i have to admit that my way expressing myself should be more well chosen, but i mean no offending, “au contraire”,
I live in the hope that my youth will make place for wisdom. (some day)
I am a reader, not a writer yet…

What i want to express, with the numbers, is that gasifiers can be adjusted with old knowledge, almost as the same way Gilmore does with his exhaust-fumes.

depending how the operator wants his engine running, lean or rich.
I have a little technical knowledge, you people have a broad experience

But believe me, you have in your hands the key to the future… Gasification is the holy grail and an answer in the Carbon dioxide problematic.

And there is no need for “shiny new technology” but people who “just do it”

But numbers are not just “tools for fools”, in this case they convince the “Non-believers”

In europe things are a bit different then in the states and if you allow me i will put it with an example;

“In the states is everything allowed what is not forbidden,…
In europe everything is forbidden if it is not allowed,.”

I am not sure if that is fully the thru in USA, but for europe you can see it that way.

In Europe you’ll need to prove the efficiency of anything you do concerned the energy. Based on the amount of input you’ll need an efficiency of 70% or better.
I could give some figures, but Gasification could not reach that level yet (because people can not explain how to calculate the numbers) and therefore the majority believes that gasification is worthless.

But what if you could claim and proof that your car and gasifier is actually a “carbon dioxide killer”? and that everybody should be rewarded who’s fitting his car with a gasifier?

Therefore you need people who are pro Gasifiers and can proof the numbers,…

I think some knowledge and understanding about the numbers wouldn’t hurt, not a necessity but not a hurt either.

I would compare it with adjusting a old type carburetor, jets, needles,… just need to know what you’r doing and “just do it”

Thanks for your comment and i hope you accept my apology’s if i may have offended you.

Kind regards

Koen

#5

Koen,

Unfortunately gasification is not a “carbon dioxide killer”. It releases CO2 that is stored in biomass. Of course this may be used to grow more biomass, and thus be called carbon neutral - but don’t fool yourself, there is CO2 coming out of the tailpipe of all woodgas cars. Nor can gasifiers be fueled on CO2 - it is only a form of energy transfer, taking heat and making combustible fuel. If we use the heat instead for work (combustion), the CO2 must escape unconverted.

I am aware that CO2 is used in charcoal gasification. It serves to temper the reaction, transferring excess heat into more fuel gas. But only a small amount is useful, and combustion produces more than can be used - therefore it must be released out the exhaust.

I’m not sure the “Non-believer” needs more numbers to be convinced of the merits of woodgas. It’s far easier (in my experience) to convince people by giving them a ride in your woodgas vehicle. Gasification is best experienced by real life doing.

#6

Hello Koen,

Please rest assured there is no offence or any apology needed in any way. I only commented because I thought chemistry , formulas and numbers might scare potential builders away. I understand knowing the above can be a plus.

Thanks
Wayne

#7

Hello Chris,

I do agree at some points, the real life doing…

But since my work is exactly knowing why things work or why they not perform i am doing therefore the research on this matter and like to point you to the really existing possibility’s.

At temperatures behind 2200°F Carbon dioxide is cracked into oxygen and carbon monoxide, same goes for water, cracked in to Hydrogen and oxygen.

So using the highest possible temperature before melting your ashes, you can indeed control your temperature with the adjustment of water and or carbon dioxide.

Since hydrogen reacts with carbon monoxide ( at these temperatures ) into methane you get a much richer, energy content in your gas.ergo more power on the shaft,more fuel efficiency.

If you have the time to read the article on wikipedia it is better explained with more words.

This is exactly why i started this topic.

So, increasing your temperature, reducing your amount of air, substituting by steam and controlling the temp by the carbon dioxide,
will increase the amounts of methane, hydrogen and carbon monoxide
depending what power you want in your gas, you’l play with water and exhaust.

the oxygen wil be oxidized with the charcoal bed.

This is already implemented in some stationary gasifiers ( look up for slagging and non- slagging gasifiers)

the same basics have been used in mobile gasification also since the early 30’s, where they used anthracite as fuel.

Yes its thru, your engine will always produce CO2
but the gasifier can convert that partially into fuel again.

Currently i am living in Thailand and doing my research here, about generating renewable energy.
Last month i started a website www.renewableenergythailand.com to promote exactly what you people are doing here.
Build gasifiers and use them, as a substitute for fuels.
Even the Thai government is well aware about the benefits from gasification and that is exactly what we all want.

To explain further why gasification is so important for the future;
1 kg bio mass ( green waste, grass), natural decay, produces almost 3 kg green house gasses ( Carbon dioxide, Methane, Nitrogen )

my main objective is to use the green waste to produce energy by means of gasification ( the best way )
To teach the poor farmers here to copy our knowledge and become independent of regular fuels.
By using the green waste (wood and other renewable bio mass ) we are contributing to the solution and not increasing the CO2 problem.

In a next topic i want to show to generate carbon fuel for using in a gasifier ( even superb fuel for mobile applications )
using the indirect retort for charcoaling and the pelletizing of the smallest charcoal powder.

I added a overview/translation to explain the contents of the gasses, including Hp per Cf and flame velocity

please feel free to comment

Included the conversion from co2 into co in reaction with glowing coal

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#8

Hi Koen
Do you have a link to your figures?
They have not come out to clear in your photo.
Thanks
Patrick

#9

Hi Patrick, try these, i will try to upload on my website later, www.renewableenergythailand.com

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#10

Hello KoenVL
Why do you post up such poor numbers for “Generatorgas”?
The number’s I have seen put up in the last 15 years from many sources, the last being Mr Waynes numbers have for wood fueled gasifiers as:
H2 in 12-22%; CO in 12-22%; CH4 as a minimum of 1% and more typically 4-6%.
“Inerts” you show were always broken out as passed out unconverted CO2 (still a fuel converting potential so in a converting gasifier not an actual inert), nitrogen AND OXIDES OF NITROGEN (these last important as a photosynthesis SMOG Root gasses much more harmfull by far than atmospheric “inert” CO2 release AND an indicator that the gasifier core is TOO HOT), and finally passed out oxegen as never less than 1% - which is certainly not an inert gas.
Are perhaps your “generatorgas” numbers from old fossil coal fueled gasifiers?
These would not be valid here on Drive ON WOOD, or with your stated purpose to help Thailand farmers with no fossil coal.

Also although your Standard Pressure heating value numbers, SINGLE gas flame front speeds, and SINGLE gas air numbers for stoicalmetric standard pressure combustion are correct; your horsepower yield by volumn per each individual fuel gas CANNOT be from actual engine (motor) derived results. These must be calculated RESEARCH numbers. Research numbers on engine fuels only have a confidence value of 70%.
#1 the actual IC “engine”, Motor can produce +/-30 difference in actual shaft horsepower produced depending on its internal configuration.
#2 the WOODGAS we are all actually using here is never a single fuel gas but an in-process changing, varing blend of the three PRIMARY fuel gases with the actual under engine Compression and Combustion PRESSURE modifiers of combustion modifing nitrogen, CO2 and now able to in engine use fuel gas stream oxegen. Under combustion pressure and heat and the presence of these combustion modifiers the actual flame front speed changes dramatically. This can only be observed by actual IC engine results.
So again not valid relevent information for IC engine Drive On Wood, IC engine Power With Wood shaft power.

I’ve had several family members live in Thailand/Burma as Christian medical missionaries. Very little actual need for seasonal heating like we here have in most of the Northern hemiphere. Their needs are for cooking heat, illumination, refrigeration and water pumping and fan ccoling
The first two woodgas (bamboo fueled) could be a direct used for a bought out fuel offset. Rergeration even possible with bamboo gas heat for the cost of expensive bought out absorption refrigeration equipment.
Water pumping and fan cooling will need shaft power. That will need a bamboogas fueled IC engine to offset bought out fuel.
This is why if you want to be relevent you must use valid fuels information for your stated goals.

Bad data will lead to failure results.

I do not mean to be so tough on you. You are young, still learning, and have a good heart.
Here on the DOW you do not need to try so hard to convince us.
We active here posting and exchanging are mostly very old seasoned warriors in the alternative energy making and useing with decades of real life experiences.
Those expereinces, especially the failures, give us wisdom.
We know now very well that the more it is talked about “to understand down to the last detail” the less actually will be done in real life.
This is what both ChrisKY and WayneK are tring to tell you.

Now I speak for myself. Anytime your project must rely on any Government you are guaranteed to have failure to deliver actiual uaseable to the people results. Hundreds of failed to deliver results in the last 40 years for “power to the people” with literally over $500 MILLION or Euro’s spent worldwide with no actual improvment to the people needing. TopDown, Governments and University efforts are too easily corrupted by outside vested intersts and “famous in thier own minds” highly educated “we all now speak the same language” back patting, not results driven demanded intellectuals.
In the last 40 years it has been the talented individuals perserving with thier individual financed projects that have made in this real world useable results. An Amish community in Uraguay with a woodmill operation. A school in Micronesia.
Would you like some of these names?
If you wish to be relevent and make an impact in the world it will be with what you personally DO, how you actually Live it, and Show by example to others they can emulate.

I am a trained, certified working automotive emmisions technician (means an IC engine fuels combustion tech) so your CO2/CO/CH4/nitrogen/oxegen balances are old hat something I had to daily in real life monitor and active adjust for to meet real demanded must pass goals. Any reasonably intellegent people could learn this also. Only ~1 out 20 auto techs actually ever do. Fewer yet able to effectively work the knowlwdge.
Just as these same people could learn the phase changes needed for food intaked vitamin B-12 as related to stomach acid and small intestine activities as related to the emzines from the somach lining specialized cells and the pancreas to contol the calcuim levels need for B-12 food release and up take into the blood stream. The nerve cells needing do not care what went wrong with this very compex process just they are dying screaming for needed B-12. Your systems still work for this. You do not have to learn this. Mine not anymore. So not I must learn.
No one person can know it all.
We ALL must accept most things in life will occur successfully without a down to the molecule, energy balance detailed understanding.
You did not swim from Europe to Thailand. You had to depend on other people to make the plane, the fuel and operated many complex systems to get you there. Things you could learn too if you had 100 lifetimes to learn “everything” that touched your life.
My missionary relatives always failed to bring up the overall actual conditions of the people they felt driven to help. They failed to appreciate that these people were just as smart and intelligent as they were and much more expreienced with thier local conditions. They failed to learn that true learning is an exchange.
The most simple living native has more to teach you that you have to teach them. You must be receptive to learn. This is one of the most important life wisdoms.

Regards
Steve Unruh

#11

Dear Steve,

you are correct about the generator gas numbers, coming from “old style” coal gasifiers.

in this topic i want to point out to the importance to understand some of these numbers to make decisions in adjustments.

know what to do, how to do, why to do and then do it…

the awareness is similar with adjusting an “ancient” carburetor :-), you need to know why you turn the screw …

The numbers are for indication purpose and comparing only.

the horsepower numbers are relevant to the calculation for the efficiency. you can break them down towards energy/weight

as you stated very correct, real numbers are depending the real situations…

but only if you know the meaning from the numbers you can decide if your mixture need adjustment and what kind of adjustment it need…

basically is that the tittle of this topic…

However, it is important to compare the processes off gasification to determ what kind of gas you want to have, rich on Hydrogen, increases the flame velocity and the reaction , dough little less power.

as you might know there are a few tweaks possible how to obtain that increase.

same as for obtaining more Carbon monoxide or the methane.

but that is not this topic, i will bring some idea’s to debate about in next topics, hope to have the change to learn from you guy’s experiences.

i did learn already here , believe me :slight_smile:

for my project in Thailand therefore, i decided to proceed in next step to build a “gilmore style” charcoal gasifier to be the “farmer gasifier”

Charcoal will always be the fuel.

for the community gasifier i am thinking on a crossdraft system with ancient filtering ( same as the old gas factory’s had)
advice and idea’s always welcome.

Further, i am well aware that i know so little, but i will open my mouth if i see that my knowledge can contribute in finding the missing piece.

Should i keep quit when i know i have the missing puzzle piece ?

As far as my knowledge goes, if my small contribution helps to set new world records for Wayne, please feel free to use my knowledge, i don’t need credits for what i learned from others.

as goes for some great people i did meet in life, without any previous knowledge they where re -inventing the wheel… i deeply respect them because they did it with their intelligence by themselves and not by the book.

my job life made me think mostly in black and white, seeking and finding the errors…
finding the errors in myself is the biggest challenge, thinking grey only :wink:

for the projects in Thailand, all private initiatives… doing it and hoping it will be copied.

Willing to learn at any time.

Kind regards

Koen

#12

Very Good responce Koen - shows maturing wisdom.
Yes for individual systems by all mean use charcoal gasifiers. Keep these user simple. Then with fewer charcoal makers you can focus on clean responsible charcoal making. And then in one location the posibilty of charcoal making sensible heat recovery - maybe fruit drying, salt consentrating or some such.

For the community gasifer by all means use more heat efficient raw fuel gasifier. You will then have the better suscess finding that 1 in 20 person who wants to learn the science of it to be able to active manage control without having an expensive 1st world only unaffordable gasses analyzer. This can be done with with expereince and study with the loaded engine power, gasifier condensates appearnce and taste, and system measurable heats and soots depositing.
Ha! I still prefer downdrafts systems for raw fuel woods. i’ve done a little bit of shipped in bamboo as trial proofing. It’s OK after drying.
See my system picture put up. Note the two different brass inlet safety valves. Nice because you can expereinced judge the actual in flows volume from the frequncy of the valves “tick, tick” sound. Larger valve is the normal air into the preheating jacket then on into the air nozzles.
Smaller valve no one ever askes about is a supplementary inlet valve. For instant internal modifing this can have inletted additional atmospheric air, water vapor spray(interal routing WILL flash this into delivered steam), engine exhaust, bottled gases of pure oxegen, argon, helium, CO2. ect.
Rural country as you propose the first three these would be available and free.

The Gasification, Propulsion and Combustion Lab of the India Instiute of Science has the most relevent usable information for your part of the world.
For individual from grasses/weed char made particles into charcoal fuel biscuit making and stove useage search up “Beehive Charcoal gasifier” or “stove”. This is in Nepal base information. Very good home/cottage level value added industry.

Ha! No debates here. This is a “you say it, then you do it, you prove it site”. Debates are for the social networks and the Intelligsta sites where How you say it, and How loud, and How long said, Wins.
The greatest wisdoms are said the simplist.
As you can read I have a long way to go yet to becoming truely wise.

Regards
Steve Unruh

#13

Hi Steve,

That looks a nice set on your picture.

Since there have been several attempts made in the past in Thailand already and they have a few university’s with a special department for making renewable energy’s,…

And still most of the people don’t know it, don’t have it, don’t get it :slight_smile:

A few bigger players who wants to make a big buck,…

But the poor stay poor…

I live amongst the poor farmers, at their level, in their kind of house, eat their food and so on…

I see the need and understand what they don’t

I am teaching them in the same way as you guy’s are doing. do something, show them, and hope they copy it.

My background is all about technical engineering, designing, prototyping, testing, with almost 40 Years experience.
Big part automotive, gasoline, diesel and renewable fuels. Recycling machinery, hydraulics, name it,…

Now i want to make things more easy, to be used here by normal people (not engineers) and a lot of smart hard working farmers.
Just making things in the KISS way… (Keep It S****d Simple)

Same as you people do.
The sole problem is, or the challenge, finding the materials to use and affordable for the majority of the people here.

Therefore i have setup the website, to make contacts with the locals ( thai version of www.renewableenergythailand.com will be www.renewableenrgythailand.org )
also use these websites for people like you and me to help the poor farmers with knowledge and experience.

If the Thai government wants to help, fine, if not , fine also, we carry on anyway.
The local authority is supporting, by asking to setup a possible project and to present the project to the higher levels.
So the responses are positive.

The thing about charcoal and why i am a charcoal believer
1:- I really know that charcoal can be made from any green waste and can be used in gasifiers
2:- Machines can be easily build to make suitable pellets or small briquets for gasifying.
3:- Charcoal gasifiers are easy to comprehend and to maintain
4:- charcoal gasifiers can be fed with normal coal
5:- charcoal from waste residue’s is easy made by the locals, with small equipment, on site
6:- This “farmer made” charcoal will be sold to the community as fuel for the gasifier-electric generator
7:- Reduced transport costs per ton energy transported ( farmers can deliver on their way home instead of driving empty anyway )
8:- gas produced during the charcoaling process will be used for irrigating and local energy on site

i am talking to much again :wink: and of topic.

I will start a topic “gasifiers for Thailand” and there we can talk about suitable designs and so on.

The bamboo thing :slight_smile:
I started here with making charcoal from bamboo and using that as alternative for them
They make theirs charcoal 20Kg in 24 Hrs (drum style)
I make that in 20 minutes

Theirs is polluting , mine is clean burning
Also worth a topic.

Back to this topic;
Did you know that the gas from closed retort (indirect heated) charcoaling/gasifying contains 50% more energy ?

Thank you for the hints towards the indian knowledge, much appreciated.

Regards

Koen

Ps: i did not understand this sentence: “Rural country as you propose the first three these would be available and free.”

1 Like
#14

Hi Koen, I don’t know what’s driving you on but go for it I say… Now might I humbly suggest that you adjust what math you present to reflect your audience. I do not know the Thai people but I know struggling country people very well; pragmatic and resourceful and always just barely making it… I have shown my charcoal gasifiers to dozens of people and never ever has anyone asked me about gas composition internal temps or how to adjust hydrogen yields; that kind of information is irrelevant. When you are that close to the edge of poverty you cannot afford to care about that kind of math. What they do ask about is:
how long do I have to spend making charcoal?
What is the ratio of biomass to charcoal?
How long will the retort last?
How much does it consume per hour? Per kw?
How long will the gasifier last?
What are the wear parts? How much do they cost where do I get them?
Do you see the difference? highly intelligent pointed questions all revolving around the practical end of things.
OK enough preaching. For a rural setting I would explore tlud stoves for charcoal production and Gary’s simple fire for a first unit. Hope you build one and get burning!!!
Best regards, David Baillie

#15

Hello KoenVL
Very good to hear your experience base. This will serve you well especially dealing with those who WILL want to make it always too complicated and outside resource dependent.

My gasifier pictured was made up and modified many times by Ben Peterson of VictoryGasworks. He is an excellant industrial/Arts class welder fabricator. It was his 6th? 7th? generation shop developement model and has had many upper and lower section variations. Many ideas tried as evidenced by the multiple outlets, inlets and sensors porting. BenP was/is very much an advocate for Gasification to Liquids fuels developing. (I am not - only a 1st world drop in fuel benefit IMHO) So every possible in and out of hearth gas shifting idea has been tried with this system. Samples then sent of for Lab testing. My comment was you would have engine exhaust, water vapor and atmospheric air to use for central hearth process modifing. Bottled gasses of pure oxegen, helium, argon and CO2 mixes NOT available, or benficial to you. I was for a time the VictoryShop more practical IC engine systems developer. This gasifier was to be destroyed as a protptype, unsalable and to preserve the patent internal designs. Mine now with the promise I do not publish the internal designs. You can easily visualize how super heated gasses intoduction into the center hot core fuel mass will change output gas results quickly.
Ha! Mr Wayne is also a very experienced commercial welder with access to many different gases also. And a very try anything/everything person!! I am only guessing here. But his speed power results speek for themself. and he is partnered with Dr Bransby and another Dr Carla.

Put up your charcoal designs and ideas in the Charcoal Gasisfers section here. Hosted by Gary Gillmore the real charcoal Doer engine running guy. Too complex to explain but local and state political conditions, cold wet climate means I cannot charcoal make here.
Yes I have talked some with a dedicated charcoal man here on my side of the US continent in a different dryer state. He said there were five major forms of woodcharcoal possible. He told me to read here “Simple Technologies for Charcoal Making” :
http://www.foa.org/docrep/X5328E/x5328E00.htm
Surprizing how good some of the UN FOA documents are.

The India gasification developer you want to search out is H.S. Mukunda.
He is a dedicated hunanist and keeps them real, relevent and people useable when of course too many others want to follow the money and the publishing fame.

With the heats, erosion and corrosions we must work with I envision thin metal skinned system for gas tightness with loose fit sacrificial thermal/ceramic/kiln type bricks lining inside. Those brick here cost $3.00 USD locally and are used as woodheating stove liners. Stationary systems of course. Beware of monlith internal casings. They must be spun cast to rocket standards to servive.

Later
Steve Unruh

#16

Hi David,

djee, i did not know that :wink: (kidding you)

as mentioned earlier in this topic, to stay with this topic, is about awareness whats in the gas and ultimately what are the benefits from adjustments.

Since this forum is an goldmine with experiences from people who did it and are doing it, is it exactly that experience what is needed, combined with sound knowledge, to choose which setup will be the best suited for the future.

For me, i am learning so much since i joined this site, that i nearly spent 16 Hrs a day with studying.

Maybe you can agree with me: most of the time you would read about a topic and find out that the topic starter has already 90% of the knowledge and is seeking for the missing 10%, or you noticed even more often that you have the knowledge about the missing 10%

That is why forums exist. sharing knowledge and experiences, helping each other.

In my case i would humbly say that i have only 10% knowledge and 0% experience, but that would be a lie.

In case of the people here: they are very conservative untill you show them, then they will copy so fast you wouldn’t believe…

But that’s not inherent to the Thai people, just remember the beginning of the farmers in amerika, good things happened when they started to do and others followed.

Just to give you an short idea about this first small project:
Conversion rate = aproxx. 30 B to 1 $
Gasoline 45 B / Liter
Diesel 35 B
Electric 4 B / Kwh
Interest rate on loan 15% anualy
Car pick up 800.000 B
Pickup 20Yrs old 120.000 B
Tractor small size 400.000
Big size: 1.200.000
Cheap motorbike 40.000

monthly average income 6.000 - 10.000
food expenses (modestly) 2.000 pp

Project for producing 200Kw Hr cost 6.000.000 B
Price per Kwh 4 B (all costs , write offs included), sell to grid for 8 B ( green energy rewards )

i want continue with this kind of figures, thats boring :wink:

People are poor here, i help them, period.

Charcoaling, i have that under control,
Feedstock, under control.

Gasifying ? i know what gasifying means :wink:

Color of my flares ? Nice blue

Suitable gasifier ? ready to construct a first one according the suggestions which i kindly receive from you people,…

“Before curing the patient, you need to know and understand his illness…”

you can’t prescribe paracetamol and bed rest for everything…

Regards

Koen

#17

Hi Steve,

The link is directing me to a website for sale…

Here a picture from a old way to make coal gas, interesting is the stone filter and the condenser they did use

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#18

Hello KoenVL
My in the mountains internet serice is even slower than yours at an average of 42kps. Many times the links I am able to use others can not.
Search “Simple Technologies for Charcoal Making FOA”. You will find a download readable link. Most interesting in that for me was the carbons AND ashing percentages of the listed tree woods from around the world. This has been one of the core reasons for the very poor results of European gasification expereince transfered down into equtorial regions.
See if this works for you:
http://driveonwood.com/resources/pdf-articles/auburn-university-efficiency-tests
If this does not load it may be a Premium member side only read. There is 3X the activity there as here on the free to read general side. Only serious DOers/Builders willing to invest and pay to be on the Premium side. Some object to this. You are now sponsoring a website also so now know that sponsorship is NOT free. Premium side menbership $'s is what keep the lights on for all of the other 75% here.
If you haven’t found this yet go to the
“Resources” tab then -> “Articles” for the 8 pages of PDF articles.
The Auburn tests show break out of total volatiles versus carbons(char) versus mineral ash of three different fuel blends in one of WayneK’s trucks track running loaded for efficiency testing. Do note the differences in the slagging temperatures of the different fuel source ashes. See . . . some of us here do know the difference between slagging and non-slagging gasifiers.
We generally only talk at this level on the Premium side or in direct person to person E-mails.
As I said most actually talking here are old expereinced internet alternative energy site warriors.
Do not want to scare away new potetial system builders with the compexties of achieving that last 10% of results.
Do not want to feed the information only farming trolls.
The commercial intended people need to invest the sweat and time to do the base reading and actual fuel buring and learn this and not just be able to cherry pick for juicy idea worms to cash in with made in China contract manufacturers.

I saw your Charcoal topics. Again forgive me I will not be following as not a charcoal maker or user. Hazardous seasonal drought has us in total burn ban for 3 months. I would go to jail then. Cold temperate rainforest always cloudy soaking wet the other 9 months - kills the yeild to less than half then having to wood heat expend to dry the wood to then expend more wood to heat make the charcoal.
Ha! I go for the wood gasifier made CH4 fuel gas componet.

Regards
Steve Unruh

#19

Try this link Koen: http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5328e/x5328e00.htm

#20

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the hints, much appreciated. How to become premium ?

I am poor because i spent my wisdom, but i am happy…

Actually i prefer you’r guy’s above “the fresh engineers”

My knowledge is military school. (7 yrs)

I learned to find answers, never learned to get rich.

Even if i don’t know the details, i understand the concepts and always want to learn more…

If you looked at the little bike i posted yesterday ( from Thailand ) , he used something, that if you don’t know it, you would not find or understand it.
But it would be a , in my humble opinion, an excellent idea to test/use it in some mobile applications, be it wood or charcoal…

One of my jobs is convincing people about how to improve efficiency, most of the decision takers have absolutely no clue where you are talking about and the other majority part is only interested in their private finance.

Since that kind of people not go in depth with their research, but still have the knowledge how to asses the knowledge available ( the floating knowledge )
it would not be a bad idea for the promotion of wood gasification to proclaim triple S numbers (Simple Sound Solid) so that these decision takers get positive input at a glance, with figures undebatable.

I did read this report, willing to read more of those…
I want to talk about the gas contents and why they change, to learn more, but with who ??? :wink:

If the gas quality changes would that be better for performance / efficiency ?
and if so , towards what values should it change ? Optimum range ? any idea’s ?

Is there a PM possibility on this forum ?

Regards

Koen