Thank you for your input definitely some more things for me to look into!
Thank you very much for responding. Those are definitely some really important considerations for me to mull over.
Thanks for the warm welcome, i really appreciate all the work you have done and how you have worked hard to share your knowledge with the world.
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Thanks so much! Ill dig into this for sure!
What kind of generator are you using?
Do you have any pictures of your system?
Just to clarify Is that 10kwh per day?
Thanks again I really appreciate it!
Hey Brett,
Here are some pictures of various gasifier builds of mine. If you cruise around my Youtube channel you’ll find random videos of my gasifier stuff.
http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/powdered-charcoal-gasifier/7049/14?u=chuckw
http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/nozzles-for-charcoal-gasifiers-part-2/3639/410?u=chuckw
https://youtu.be/qeUr_e842MI
There are tons of builders around here with a lot more experience than me so be sure to investigate broadly:)
The 10kwh per batch run is my best result from the 55 gallon drum setup. The run time and power produced are directly proportional to the quality of the charcoal. I make the worlds worst charcoal (on purpose) and use the worlds worst generator (for now, on purpose), in order to establish worst case scenarios since one of my use cases is ‘zombie apocalypse’ prepper thinking.
When I make flame cap charcoal from wet old junk picked up out of the mud I get 1lb per gallon (1/2 inch grind) and the run times are about 8.5 hours using 33 gallons of charcoal with a 1kw load.
When I make flame cap charcoal from better sources, I get 1.3lbs per gallon (1/2 inch grind) and can get 10 hour run times, same 33 gallons and 1kw load.
I haven’t tried it yet, but you can safely assume that quality retort made charcoal would yield better results.
The generator is a Chinese 196cc Honda clone, 3600 rpm. No mods of any kind other than plumbing in the char gas. (unless you count an electric drill starter setup)
Not that I recommend such a generator!! Truly worst case…
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Here is a nugget of wisdom from @SteveUnruh to consider;
“Looking back at the last 7 years I see the most relevant factor to whether a person will join the one in a million who woodgas for usable engine power isn’t their skill as a welder fabricator,
their ability to do the maths,
follow along the thermal-chemical process
It really is predictable by their ability to Source, then Process, and then Maintain a wood fuel pile that will diminish at, at least a 200 pounds a day used-up rate.”
http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/are-you-a-one-in-a-million/488/16?u=chuckw
It’s easy to get seduced by the novelty and possibilities of biomass to power (and most of us around here continue to be), but the gritty, dusty, sweaty, reality will weed out the casual observers:)
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Wrap your head around at least 200 pounds of fuel a day of gathered, chunked and stored dried wood. Nobody is going to get the 24-7 power they are so accustomed to and take for granted now. As Chuck says, “gritty, dusty, sweaty, reality.” A whole new mind set has to be nurtured. My view is that you may be able to run a power plant six to eight hours a day. Even that seems daunting to me but MattR runs his fab shop at least that long so it must be doable. During those hours you do your major work and with some kind of battery bank you should be able to keep a fridge and lights going for the rest of the time but what happens if you are down with the flu for a few days to a week and can’t process that fuel? The food in your fridge and freezer will spoil. If you are using the system for waste heat your pipes may freeze in the winter. I don’t think the average person knows how much work it is when they try and separate themselves from the system. Worth it? You bet.
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This is why I would pair a chargas generator with solar and batteries. The amount of wood you need to process for a 300-500 kwhr month household is insane, and that’s low for most homes in the US which average 800+ kwhrs.
In the winter when solar power is low you cogen heat and electricity with the chargas. In the summer, no generator except on a second or more rainy day.
The solar and batteries cost a lot more though, at least $5k for 10khrs of battery and panels to charge them.
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Good description Tom.
Fuel processing, storage, and handling seems key for long term viability. Grappling with those realities will really put things in perspective.
So much of this is without definition, ‘how high is up’?
I suspect you would define your lifestyle by your available fuel. If you could make and store a thousand gallons of charcoal in a day (a month’s supply at 300kwh, worst case), I think a threshold of convenience would be crossed for me.
@abreaks, I think you are right about layering your power sources. Solar and a battery bank are a no brainer and work well together with biomass. Solar is strong when fire season starts up… (starts humming “If I were a rich man…”)
It can be hard to think clearly about all the variables with gasification, and even harder to discuss it, as nobody has identical circumstances or goals.
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Hello Brett,
Welcome. We switched from steam to gas engines back in the late 1800s mainly because of equipment cost. Steam can be more energy efficient in some cases, but it seems that initial cost out weighed this in most people’s minds back then. As far as I can tell the same dynamics hold true today. This is from Gas Engines & Producer Gas Plants by Mathot 1905.
Rindert
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Hi all , i came across a lovely old steam generator on YouTube thought it might interest some people .
This is a long shot but if you can listen to the tune being played in this Video , i know i have heard this tune in a country style song but i cannot even get Shazam to find it , on the bottom of the video it does say original but i know i have heard this tune c’mon you country boys and gals help me out here .
Thanks Dave
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Dave I think that’s just a generic royalty free song. It doesn’t ring any bells for me.
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Thanks Cody , i could swear i heard it before its one of those buggy things that plays on your mind , well its stuck in my head for sure lol
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Steam is fun to watch but not very easy to build or fuel efficient. You can solve the “not very easy” part by making it a labor of love. You can’t really solve the efficiency part though!
DIY steam is going to be ~3-5% efficient in terms of shaft HP / watts out. Gasifiers into an ICE will be at least double that.
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I suppose that would be with an unmodified gasoline engine? Seems about right.
Rindert
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Great information
Here is a scenario that is interesting! Lots of crop waste is burned around the world. I am working at a coffee mill that has 500 tonnes of coffee husks to get rid of.
The mill uses a diesel generator when the equipment is running
The husks are being gasified- made into char aka biochar. As biochar it is valuable stuff. $50 to $ 100 or more a tonne.
The heat from 500 tonnes of biomass gasification/Pyrolysis is free and very accessible
Equipment that is simple to build and maintain is the goal. And very low cost. To take this heat. Turn to steam in a mono-tube boiler and steam goes to a diy built turbine then to a generator- so the mill has electricity. 4 kw will be sufficient to run the equipment. I can come from one, two or even 3 turbines
These coffee mills are near the coffee plantations so spare parts etc are impossible to get
Since this application the turbine can run at one speed is there a good monotube boiler system any of you suggest? And an easy to build turbine. Efficiency is not a priority sense the heat is being produced with or with out using the steam. Most important is easy to build and keep running. An operator will be there all the time
Thanks for the suggestions and comments
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If efficiency is not a holly cow, you may give a try to a common turbo. They easy handle pressures up to 5 bar and temps around 700°C, which is far beyond your limits. The biggest challenge will be high speed generator with the inverter. For steam of above parameters you don’t need a special boiler, any tank tested for the 20 bar pressure will work.
You also may avoid troubles with steam and use your waste heat to increase temperature of the air compressed by turbocharger and use it as motion fluid for the turbo like engine exhaust. Would be much more simple than messing with the steam
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Hi Dave @d100f thanks for putting this home-power steam to electric system video up.
This is pretty much one of the same systems that was for a number of years every summer set up and demonstrated here.
A generational family-logging and farm operation. Grandma operated a farm English tea house. The Pomeroy House.
I watched real, live; and asked questions.
This small one was their 10hp system used to belt drive buzz saw up slab wood from their saw mill.
A larger one powered a sled steam donkey winch they demonstrated yarding logs and loading onto either rail car or restored early trucks.
Some details on this small one:
It starts at zero steam pressure with a relatively lazy wood fire in the fire box. Lazy smoky chimney pipe. Once some steam pressure is built up and the engine is working the cylinder exhaust steam is routed up into the lower chimney to greatly increase the draft flow rate. Note then cleaner visible firebox exhaust with energetic puffs pulses.
He refers to water level in the boiler. Easy to refill starting with no pressure. But under operation pressure not shown was a needed three cavity water pressurizing filling pump. Steam shaft powered.
All of theses for logging wood milling power plants were vertical boilers with small bed fireboxes. Have to cut and fine split wood at ~12-14 inch lengths. So no loading up and walking away for an hour or two. Needed constant tending. The donkey winch took three men to operate. Wood cutter/splitter. The fireman/lubeman. The actual winch operator.
Another reason for the constant need tending; was external lubrication of all of the moving parts. Have to re-fill all of the oiler cups. Steam leakage and hot water dripage washing off all of the parts.
Interesting the back ground surround pictures shows he is Pacific Northwest. He is electrical generating with a made axial flux windmill type system to match up to the low engine rpm.
Used to be a fellow down in Australia who make ball bearing modernized steam systems
for small boats, cars and even motorcycles? who would make up for a price 1000 watt electrical systems. He would say a fellow would be operating costs and running expenses be better buying liquid fuels and generating for electricity.
Regards
Steve Unruh
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Thanks for the link to kimmelsteam. It’s been a minute since I looked through there. For anyone who doesn’t remember, Tom participated in APL’s Escape from Berkeley race along with Wayne and the WVO guys. I don’t see any current reference to that on his site, so here’s an article from the race we saved:
Tom also apparently wrote an article about wood gasification. Unfortunately it seems he doesn’t understand it well at all, which is unfortunate. He’s generally a very knowledgeable guy. He did put a link to DOW. I’ll link the article here.
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