Hello Guys,
(Just reminder) GEK Gasifiers have free plans for a centrifugal metal blower in their web page, they can be cut using a manual router or even better with CNC, I guess. The motor to be attached is an other story.
Whats up guys. Anybody have any experience with this blower? Its the one specified in Ben Petersons book.
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Nope I use the AmTeck blowers much cheaper and they are extremely powerful and are all metal with the motor isolated from the housing. Plus they are very abundant. They are also AC so a little 400 watt inverter can convert to DC. You then have a dual voltage set up. I run on AC direct from my off grid system. But if needed I can just use a 12 volt battery using the inverter.
The picture shows a plastic housing. These are not plastic like shown in the picture though. This part number is the all metal version.
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A quick search revealed it’s a brush less direct current motor. BLDC. The commutator is controlled with some sort of switching power supply. I ran into something like this buying a fan for my oil stove. I need to figure what wires need the pwm signal. Once the correct circuitry is arrived at, this little bugger should be very efficient.
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Turns out my motor is three phase BLDC, the ESC I need is $7, but I cannot find one that matches your FL130021d -02 anywhere. Can you take the back cover off and see if it is three phase too? If it is, then just about any ESC will work.
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Yes. I have used many of these. 12VDC as noted. Very watts use efficient. Brushless. Sparkless.
Been used pictures here :
The 12VDC made-in-USA AMETEK’s were a bit more higher flow at ~2X the watts needed. As I recall a bit over 150 watts. But 2x-3x the price new for the 12vdc versions.
Larger systems: or to double up blow and suck you would use two of these.
As MattR says to get the really high flow capability then use a 115/230 volt AC version power supplied thru an inverter from a battery bank. And big enough inverter have some extra AC too.
S.U.
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Specs on this blower are 5.7 amps @ 120 volts comes to over 600 watts. But this is the max. Im using a $25.00 Harbor Freight 400 watt inverter and have not had any issues. So I dont they are set up at full amperage. These are kinda cool as you can adjust them by turning the motor somehow. There is a couple youtube videos showing how to do that. Its recommended that you turn them down to extent cycle life.
These blowers are tuff. I just ran today and left it out in days of rain and it was full. lol I didnt realize it until after I turned it on and was shooting water out like a water pump!! haha. Cost wise my opinion these are a way better deal. For $120 -$140 bucks you buy the blower, DC inverter and a router speed control. Either way you are converting to AC.
With this thing, I can be from cold start up to engine running in less than 1 minute. So less efficient powering input wise, but more efficient to cold start up to engine. Take your pick. 
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Wow it turns out Greg Cooper in 2018 ordered one of these and got it working with a little ESC as seen in this picture…he says he paid over $300 for two of these…uh…that’s three barrels of diesel down at the Res, that’s like six months worth of fuel…
I think Matt has a better price point…
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Ha! Ha! Gasifier sucking blowers became one of my judgement points way back around 2010.
Came to be I could figure a fellows gasification intended purpose(s) by his blower insistences.
Actual vehicle driving guys and real-use home electrical generation guys look at this as just a necessary get-the-gasifier-up-to-heat-working tool.
Some then made up modified selected car blower motor systems with turbine type housings. VesaM.
Others just went with a common 1000-1200 watt 12VDC to AC inverter then used a metals housing home vacuum system motor/turbine. MikeL, TomC, Dutch John, and many others. Free to $25. for an old Kirby, Filter Queen, or an old in-house central vacuum.
Even a nearly all plastic shop vac works fine if you stick to blow thru liting up only.
Then you get to the ones wanting to make their wood gasfier system into a base chemical step up system. To make methanol. To make hydrogen. To make charcoal. To make heating gasses.
No intent to ever run an IC engine directly off of the gasifier itself. Compress and store the gases maybe for later on-demand use.
Now they needed an 100% duty cycle powerful system to continually be load sucking that gasifier and low pressure supply delivering the produced gasses.
Now you talking real high bucks for something to last. Just like the old towns gasification plants make/store and demand delivery systems needed huge blower systems steam engine driven.
Ha! Little home electrical generation units you can gasifier start up like Dutch John proved with a double action plastic inflatable pump.
Other proved out antique hand crank forge blowers. Available new now for $300-500. USD.
Then Wayne Keith and others now with their multiple series ganged boat bilge12vdc blowers.
BenP’s and MattR’s situation is a little different. What can be done in new produced; in expandable lots; based on sales demand.
Not just what can be scrounged put together.
Ahhh. You say. What do you use Steve Unruh smarty pants?
Those little bronze sleeve bearing 12vdc high speed motors and metal turbines out of a portable car vacuum. $49. last I check Installed into a composite wooden and metals plate housing assembly. No-weld, made up.
Sucks good. Sucks close coupled still hot gasses.
Motors and the all metal turbines pictured above imbedded in my last post.
Downsides? About 20% duty cycle. The not ball bearings will heat, and will bind the shaft. Cool down and up off and away again.
Can be ganged together for more flow volume.
A ~$60. solution for those keeping track.
S.U.
postscript fact check. Metrovac AM-4B are now $78.49 made in USA
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Wasn’t somebody using an ejector? Air or steam? Was it Mike Anthony? I can’t remember anything anymore…
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Bruce,
Stephen Abbadessa is one who uses air ejectors for starting small wood gasifiers. He has some posts on DOW and has a web page at Northern Self Reliance.
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Thanks Steve, that’s right. I had a vague memory of that.
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Hey Bruce, I the owner of one of these Chinese blowers still have not answered your three phase question.
Last seen/used this one six years ago.
I cannot find it now.
I personally was more happy with the non-electronics brushed types Metro motors. So stocked up swung that way. 20 minutes capability was just fine for my needs.
On its four wire factory plug either the not used white or yellow wire was for off-board speed control. The other a pulse output for off-board RPM monitoring.
Vancouver Victory Gasworks shop we found that these sucked best at factory set all out RPM. Never cared how the off-board speed was controlled or RPM mentored.
Mistake to speed throttle these back these low wattage units for woodgas usage.
And hard learned experiences had taught me that even 115vac, 2 1/2 horsepower shop vac were much easier to inlet restrict throttle back versus electrical side speed controlling. Work loaded less, pumping less air load; they speed up unloaded. Draw less amps. Easy to verify this with a KIllowatt meter.
The first 400 batch of the Chinese units to come into the US were sent wrong with 24vdc specs. The under the black cover whole DC to AC pulsed phased section was just three?four?(been eight years!) hold down screws removed and replaced to the correct 12vdc. driver unit. Same RPM. Some loss in against resistance pressure/flow capability.
The for-sale advantage to these and the Amtex Windjammers was the dual-end just flange bolt on capabilities. Easy flat gasket end sealing.
Regards
Steve unruh
The rotary-lobe compressor was invented by two brothers, Philander Higley Roots and Frances Marion Roots, who patented their design in 1860. Just wondering if you could reproduce this device with out infringing on a patent . It is not Mickey Mouse
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Hi Steve,
I prefer a brushed motor, for a fan. CIMs would be the toughest, most adaptable to a metal fan housing. CIMs also work well with pwm. I think they are $20 for a size that would work on a fan.
I use my pwm motor controller to charge my lithium ion batteries. An easy way to buck 12v down to whatever voltage I am needing.
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Henry,
I bet we could print a cute lil Roots blower. Make it out of PLA and see how long it lasts.
The funny thing would be the sound it would make…like a miniature two stroke Detroit Diesel.
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Xoie Ichigo uses a micro roots. I think you could probably reproduce without infringing. Just keep a copy of the 1860 patent around. If anyone says anything just tell them there IS a patent on that and its expired. Worked for me with an angle cutting jig I made. The guy thought he was going to sell me a license I think.
Rindert
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Bounce house blowers have plenty of power.
Used ones come up often. Almost always plastic, so can’t handle real hot air:
Example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bounce-House-Inflatable-Fan-Blower-Water-Slide-Motor-Air-Pump-Model-W-2L-E230679/383757104374
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I am linking to the picture in this post as I think testing this way for gasifier usage this test is invalid.
Blowers need flow to have the speed flung made-dense air-slug to be their working medium.
Static negative pressure testing is a video sales stunt. Invalid as no actual work is accomplished.
We need to pull a volume flow against a flow through resistance.
Observe here:
By the tests done the Harbor Freight Bauer shop vac performed the best overall
The problem for us is that none of these tests duplicate gasifier use conditions.
WayneK and others using his ganged up bilge blowers by accepted testing standards should not work.
Yet it obviously does for him and many others now.
We need testing set up pulling through charcoal beds. The flow restriction of air nozzles and a down stream plumbing, and/or cyclone.
The American Kestrel falcon by winged bird standards should not be able to hover in place, even move backwards a bit.
But they do. I see them do this all of the time.
Often in real life it ain’t the revolutionary killer idea or App; but just a change in perspective.
S.U.
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Jim Mason used to offer free pitot tube manometers.
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