Not so much of a bang danger, more of a poison danger. But with a well made system it shuld be ok.
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Hi, Kristijan!
12.6.2017
A question thugh. Once woodgas above dewpoint meets the 60% humid air, the humidity of the mix shuld fall considerably. But it is not lost, its just not in a liquid state anymore. Does this gaseous water not dilute gas?
ā¦
Woodgas above dewpoint (dry), at what temperature?
Woodgas on continuosly lowering temp until condensing and then re-heated?
60% humid air at ambient temperature?
Was the question about hot woodgas above dewpoint mixing together with air of 60% humidity at ambient temperature?
If the woodgas is first cooled down to ambient temperature, condensing out water = 100% gas humidity and then mixed with ambient 60% humid air,
the result is increasing mix humidity!, as to ambient air 60% humid!
Numbers tell:
Increased relative humidity at ambient temperature is = dilution of the gas!
If the woodgas had not been cooled to ambient temp and condensed, before the mixing, the mix would have been furthermore diluted by humidity!
So, to Matt:
Do not mix hot gas and air before the gas has been cooled and condense taken out!
After the gas condensation: Reheat the gas and apply warm paper filtering! Physically kept warm paperfilter.
Weld the paperfilter bucket on a hot common surface = cyclone!
Then mix with air!
Of course, the paper filter comes no earlier than as the third or fourth stadge of filtration! Otherwise it is a compleat ābirding serviceā!
In swedish = bear service.
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Hi Max,
Yes l was thinking of cool, but supersaturated gas. Fog to say. In my oppinion, once you mix fog with dryer air, you get dry, but diluted mix! Some math wuld come in handy to calculate how much diluted.
But, this phenomenom might be a good tghing too. If we cool and condense woodgas to 100% moisture, and mix with 60% moisture air, we shuld get a mix of 80% moisture. DRY! Without a reheat, this shuld pass trugh a paperfilter.
But the key is the gas has to have all the āfogā removed in the first place. A scrubber might come in gandy as it has shown to be werry effective at catching tiny water droplets.
Max, while on the topic of turbocharged gasifiers, have you maybee got any imfo on them? I know they were made in the war but have litle info on the performance.
Hi, Kristijan!
12.6.2017
One of the members in the Finnish Ekomobilistsā association has applied turbochargers on a Caddy.
His calculations showed, that the exhaust āproductionā falls to about half compared to what the same motor generates on gasoline.
This is solved by choosing a gas turbine for half the previous flow.
The compressor part is retained at original level.
Changing blow areas for the turbine are also available from some manufacturersā¦ will help at low RPMs, giving more āfillingā and torque.
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Hi Max,
Yes we mix after the gas has gone through our chiller and then condensing process and then mix in the air. Then the mixture goes through another drying process to vi a bank of cyclonic filters to remove left over moisture tar that are still suspended in the gas.
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Getting rid of the fog is really the whole point of the bank of cyclones. As the gas is mixing in these cyclones the small droplets will start combing, adding weight and they will whip out in the cyclone.
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The revelation I am now having is I never considered the added moisture of the intake air in this filter process along with other observations after air intake mixture. This added moisture I think is helping in the process as I stated above; as the moistures will start combining clinging to each other and drop out. Each cyclone sets the stage for the next so more than one is going to be needed, especially since a cyclonic filter working under vacuum it not ideal. However, the video here that started this whole thing, Iām sure will lead many of us to better designs and the outcome will be an achievement for all of us. This has all been some great info with great input here.
I am wondering about the relative air pressure?
An increase in pressure causes slight heating and water droplets (fog) to change to gas.
So for best water removal the cyclone can only centrifuge out droplets (fog).
This is not true, you need to remove vacuum pressure. A vacuum will hold and suspend liquids into a gas state. This is how you lower the boiling point so to boil water at lower temperatures.
In our application this is why you see tar (if its made) drop when its exiting the gasifier system. ( leaving out the flare tube or post air fuel mixture
Kevin,
I donāt have old notes in front of me but the drop pipe only needs to be 1/3 down. I use an air ramp on mine that helps separation. The longer drop pipe may be needed for the wide and shallow bucket used in the video.
Thanks Bruce S i may try the strait round cyclone with trap at bottom. The vidios i looked at were getting 96% of the dust in the round cyclones Seem good enough for my tool setup.
Hi, Matt!
13.6.2017
A list of unpleasent facts, with constructive intent:
-
What goes in, comes out; you choose how and where.
-
I have never seen your start-up gas being clear fast.
-
I have never seen (from cold) your start-up gas flame lit with spark only.
-
I have never seen you emptying any silo condense.
Experience tells: Only spark ignitable gas guarantees instant motor start.
(Low at steam, high at hydrogen)
Steamless, start-up gas (as seen?) when seen, tells that the silo content has been dried up enough at last run.
(No condens drip into char at close-down)
This is perhaps an uncomfortable list, but it tries to tell about construction aims, that have to be taken into concideration if the end goal is comfortable operation.
Mike laRosa: If your hand gets (condens)wet in the undeluted fanning stream, fan more!
All this aims at one conclusion:
Heat and condens the silo wood properly.
Hi Mart85!
13.6.2017
Sorry Mart, for this sidestepping from cyclones, but it may lead to using cyclones more for their primary use, instead of after-treatment, when primary functions are skipped, perhaps for ācostā reasons?
Thats because all the machines I start up on video are brand new. I dont get to keep them for more than a week at most and dont run them.
Whence comes the advantage of mixing air / gas before the cyclone?
The pressure of the pure gas and the mixed gas in the air are equal !
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Yes but you also create the presure drop.
Hi Max, not sure what your intent is here, but the cyclone filter Im proposing is an added process to what we already have in existence. There for its an increase in cost also a lot more work, the point is to make the machine better. I do not believe in tar media filtering, I know better then this and if it can happen it will. So this is an added process to eliminate this as a potential problem. The machines once burned in and using proper dry fuel do not make tar. However, most that purchase a machine have the learning curve to go through and this is to help eliminate those issues. I have put a lot of hard work into this with a great deal of personal sacrifice, Im far from rich and have a genuine motive to do better. Those that had seen the 2015 Utility Gasifier I had at Argos can vouch for me. Bill Schiller ran his tractor with it and this had a first gen automixer.
My intent is to bring this technology out of the dark ages and I have made accomplishments that I am rightfully proud of. I have built over 250 machines experimenting with advanced design the whole way, I have a high perspective from this not just some backyard experimenter I am an engineer with 20 years plus machine build experience. Im not your average bear and dont judge me by my hillbilly looks on video. What you see there is someone that worked himself ragged trying to please his customers.
9 Likes
Big like there Matt, l cant say for others, hope you dont find me critical. Constructively critical, yes. I like the fact that althugh you run a buisness, you allso share knowlidge and thats what l respect a lot! There are some people that keep all for them selvesā¦
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Did any body here Matt say he runs his gas through a PAPER filter just before the intake manifold, That has too be clean gas i thought too go through paper filter. And i remember Matt saying he heats the hopper, in his own type patent design.Or has too sell enough units too just give all his long hours testing designs out, it might be differnt if he was retired rich not in his prime and working. Thanks.
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Sorry Matt, Iām trying to figure out .
Of which magnitude the pressure decreases, according to you?
And why drop it?
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