Just as if you have a leak in your system you will drop vacuum presure right? Ok so now by entering the intake air you are basically creating a giant leak but we want this at this point to create the right air fuel mixture. This now does two things one is the air adds cooling to the gas as its mixing in plus the drop in presure that help free up moisture and tar dropping. Water moisture will drop much more readily than tars as its due point is much higher. Tar on the other hand has a much lower dew point and because its generally in a vacuum, its even lower than at atmospheric presure; hence why we see it much later. In our small compact systems this presents an even greater challenge as the path from the gasifier to the engine is relatively short. The concept of the cyclone also adds in some dwell time to the give moisture and tar more time to drop out as the path is now lengthened and with the centrifugal force to aid pulling it out of the gas. Also note there is a different from removing debris vs liquids in a cyclone. In the case of removing liquids when the droplets hit the interior wall it sticks and then drains down.
I have tested this for over a couple years but in a closed loop with out the intake air added. Others have also done similar systems and this does work. The Japan build I did last year was the first machine I tried adding in the intake air and was blown away by it. So I am now expanding on this filtering system with adding more in a bank and then the K&N filter as a fail safe if tar is too excessive even for this filter.
I want to clarify my view on filtering tar. Indeed you can filter it through a media type filter. However, this would need to be done at a micron level filter and need to be automatic regenerative. I have built such a device, but its too elaborate and is just not cost effective. What Im refering to is more of our traditional media filters, they certainly work to help absorb moisture and remove debris. This also something that this cyclonic filter helps with in the removal of debris. Because this is wet it works much like the filters on old tractors. So if we can eliminate the media in the filter we have a much better breathing machine and dont have to handle that nasty stuff when it needs changed out.
If you want to boil water or create distillation process at lower temperatures you simply apply vacuum to it. To condense you do just the opposite. Your air compressor in humid summer months will ring out the moisture and you may need to drain it more frequently for example.
Another example is scuba divers resurfacing to fast as the presure is decreased their blood can boil. So this add that the presure drop is sudden. None of this is theory or speculation this all based on five years of observations and real world testing.
I have the idea, that this forum is instigated for exchangeing ideas, observations, suggestions, plans, drawings, sketches or other materials about woodgas and the use of it.
Now, putting a few questions, observations, or describing something that seems to be missing, belongs to the normal routines on this site, or is it something else?
To express a few observations or questions in a plain way belongs to the daily routine.
Your last comment seems to ensue I am skipping or promote skipping primary filtering functions and possibly trying to be cheap to make more money or something. I have only stated that “I” do not use media filtering as a technique for filtering. However all traditional filtering methods are in place an all of my machines. In fact what I now consider our condenser can still be used as a media filter device if the user chooses to do so. The proposed cyclone bank is something I am sharing as a fellow user and experimenter of this forum in an attempt to help contribute to better designs. I am sharing my own personal experiences and like mention I am one of few commercial producers sharing knowledge. I am only proposing this idea and if anyone wants to try it I am freely offering my own experience and putting this out there.
Your other comments seem to be attempting to call me out and discredit me as well. None of the machines I typical show have more than a few hours on them so of course they are going to smoke. I dont always have good fuel either I do my best to show the machines and do my best to provide a good product that works.
However, I am always looking for ways to make improvements and this will never change, we will always continue to evolve. I am only proposing this here as an add on system. Your comments make me feel as Im promoting or have other agenda for my own personal gain. I am only here contributing just like any other user of this forum expressing my idea of this system and what I have learned from doing this as a living.
Thanks Matt on sharring these points of systom effects. If one put an aluminum radiator in place of the hay firter condencer in the type you exsplained Do you think it would drop more water than the media filter, or see any major cleaning problems.Thanks Matt.R
Maybe sometime in the future I would like to experiment with an all aluminum gas cooler but powder coated with the chrome coating. Its supposed to be corrosion resistant and can handle temperatures of 1200* f.
Thanks MATT i may try one after a small media filter and small cylone’ maybe i try copper with sodered cans so could heat up somewhat at cleaning. Need a few more empty kegs too use for condencing designs. Sinse i stoped drinking, the aution down the road has them often, wait for a deal on one or two.
Are we talking about relative pressure drop (in difference with ambient pressure) or partial pressure betwen gas and air?
Becouse, as l learned at chemist school, equal volume of gas in gas mix equals its partial pressure. So, if we have 50/50 gas air, we must have 50/50 pressure, meaning the pressire (vacuum) anywhere on the sistem betweet the last restriction (lets say hayfilter), air valve and engine intake manifold shuld be the same!
This is what Thiery sayd above.
Afterall, its what a membrane automixer does!
I have been thinking about puting your cycloned gas air mix to the test. I have some room in the engine compartment, and it certainly cant do no harm, l just want to be sure if its wort the effort.
Nice well Im going to try and wrap my brain around this. It would seem to me there would be drop in presure from before air mixer to the mixture after the gas. But your later partial presure is probably more accurate. I am still trying to understand this myself. I know it works now I need to figure why it works and the presure drop in gas stream is the only thing that would make sense.
May be it is only the reduction of the temperature of the air / gas mixture (air temperature <gas temperature) which allows more condensation and therefore increases the efficiency of the cyclone
You guys are making me see haha. Yeah that maybe all it really is, if this is the case than Im going to go to coated aluminum cyclones or maybe liquid cooling, No I have not tested with gauges yet, when I build the new development machine I do plan to have a lot of instrumentation on that one. My thinking more along the lines of Kristijan’s share presure statement. But now I see that this may net even be the case. As the flows/presure once established after air mixture do not change?
Most of the stuff I develop have their initial theory. Some things are by complete accident. Most of the time though like the HGRS for instance have completely different outcomes and we dont come to those realizations later. The HGRS was supposed to remove moisture, the gas went into a cooler to drop moisture and then reheat via exhaust heat and re inject to aid in fuel drying. This is not how it worked at all. haha. The cooler we built was inadequate and we were not dropping the moisture. The gas in the hopper was kept above moisture dropping so that part worked in a sense of fuel drying. Where the gas is then reinjected it was doing much more that drying we had pre pyrolysis zone I believe. Then I also did not factor in gas expansion from heating the gas from exhaust. There is a lot more to learn with this system specifically with flows and next version I want to try and get it flow naturally with out blower intervention.
