After much thought. I came up with a water cooled gasifier for cooling the gases and keeping the outer part of the gasifier lower part cool. Well at 212°f . Yes this unit will make steam to go into the nozzles.
The gas cooling tubes are in the lower part of the gasifier also.
The only thing that will be added is a filt housing that could be in the boat or mounted next to the gasifier.
This will be a charcoal gasifier unit.
Below the grate and lower part of the firetube will be under water with the ash and char area.
Just some ideas from talking with @KristijanL on cooling the gases and others ideas from others. Thanks for the input you all have given on safety.
It will be tested first on a vehicle. Duel purpose gasifier.
The steam will work it way up past the fins that are weld around the firetube then into the nozzles. The hotter it gets the hotter the steam. It is all on a vaccum and no way pressure will be able to build up in the gasifier unit. When the engine is not running the steam will vent off. Not sure how fast it will cool down. It might cool down like a imbert gasifier. More on this after I get all the parts cut out.
This unit has fins for cooling my other drawing has cooling tubes in the water.
Bob
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Here the gasifier with the cooling tubes in water. I like this design better for cooling the gases.
I also put a housing around the lower part of the firetube reaction zone and ceramic wool to insulate it and keep it hot after shut down.
Modified the water over flow. If you see steam coming out it needs to be filled up.
I think I can use a toilet bowl fill valve float in a separate container to auto fill the gasifier from the bottom using a copper tubing when it gets low on water.
It is sure cheaper to build things on paper, then use up good materials making mistakes.
With a saw dust and hay filter it will be easy to hook up.
I am thinking 1 hopper temp gauge is all that will be needed. May be 2 vaccum gauges hopper and main gas line to engine. Trying to keep it KISS.
Bob
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Hi,
If you would like a titled project boat for this here in Washington, Yakima area. I have access to a couple of 4cyl Mercruiser 17-18 foot motor launches. Trailers and boats have titles and all are free. The 120hp or 140hp Mercruiser is a very cheap for parts, plentiful and sturdy GM industrial 4 cylinder. A good one to experiment on.
Have a great day!
Ben.
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Thanks Ben, I will keep this in mind. I have a 140hp Mercruisr and 120 hp.OMC 17’ boats. But if this gasifier works it will open up a whole new area of gasification. It is very notice, able how many less boats there are on the water fishing and just crusing on the Columbia River. From my porch I can view it flowing by and the boats.
Are the boats engines and hydro tilts running or are they in of repair?
Bob
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Hi,
I believe that at least one or two of them with minor maintenance can all be in functional order. It is a friend who collected them and now would like to move them on. He offered them to me for free.
I also have some v8 marine engines and outdrives if you think that the power reduction of running woodgas could rule out a 4cyl. Weight is definitely going to be a concern. I am fascinated by the possibility of getting back out on the water.
Let me know if there is anything I can do to help make this project a success.
I am just beginning my first gasifier build so trying to learn and don’t have much to offer in the way of ideas at this point.
Have a great day,
Ben.
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I don’t think weight would at all be an issue really other then fuel, with the open options of water cooling that can drastically reduced the overall weight of the system. More over a 4 cylinder iron duke 151 which was once common place in boats around here doesn’t drink a whole lot of fuel. If my small block Chevy can run for 30-45 minutes down the road at varying 1/4-1/2 throttle I see no reason a 4 cylinder couldn’t cruise for some time on a hopper load of good dry cherry wood as Bob has. And how often are you running the main motor? Even fishing the salt water in my dad’s jet sled the main outboard is run for 10-30 minutes from the launch to the fishing grounds then shut down and the kicker motor is run while fishing. Gasifier cooling at this time, then after several hours of offloading bait and loading fish then fire back up to run into the marina. Fresh water local run my biggest lake I fish on the regular is alder lake and 10-15 minutes of big motor run to the fishing spots then electric trolling motor for the next few hours. Big outboards and inboards almost all have a charging systems so you end up using wood to shaft power for transport and charging batteries for the trolling motor usage. On a large enough body of water this could be a good return. For my little boat needs not so much, I can use my solar array to charge trolling motor batteries at home so only fuel cost is transporting boat and trailer to the body of water, which the V10 build will take care of. Now where Bob is at with the big rivers I could see more big motor usage where this could shine along the snake river for several mile runs, or Moses and potholes lakes. Big water compared to my pond jumping on the wet side of the state. If our other side of the salt friends can build systems fitting in a rabbit, Mazda, and Skoda I think Bob can nail a light weight system on a boat
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Boat with boat trailer. Gasifier and fuel supply on a floating trailer connected by a bridge from the boat to access and refill the hopper. Or on outriggers along side boat.
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Sounds pretty KISS to me .lol
Bob
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The plans or drawing has change but cutting out the metals has begun. This unit is going to be different it will be sitting in water. At less the lower 8" part of it. It will make steam that will go into the intake with the air. It can be 100% charcoal or wood or both. It is going to take 3 oil barrels to build it. For all the sealing parts needed. Not sure if it will steam like a steam engine or not. It will not be able to build pressure because it is not a sealed unit where the water will boil and steam. This is the short barrel part that the 12" firetube is sit on.
The hopper will be a full size oil barrel. With a hinged lid and 12" hatch opening the top of the barrel will be spring loaded hatch like on the WK Gasifiers.
At the top of the firetube there is a 3/8" nipple already weld in for a lighting port. The firetube is 16" tall. It will have a 6" pipe that will start at the bottom coming up out of the water and into a drop box . I am hoping it will self clean the ashes soot, and small char out. I might install a grate shaker down the 6" gas exhaust pipe. This pipe is also the clean out hatch on the end. I can easy reach into the grate area.
I will be building all the componets from the three barrels. A lot of thin barrel welding. May be I will master this kind of welding. It is quite challinging. My welder on the lower 1 setting with clean metals .023 wire and speed? Make it just right not to fast and not to slow.
Bob
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This is going to be really interesting Bob. I can’t wait to see it in a boat.
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I will test it on a car first to make sure it works. Easier to work on.
Bob
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Me too, l am real anctious to see this thing float!
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Mike I am surprised at you and William. I am no expert on gasification or boat fires but I do know that most boat fires are caused by the volatility and explosiveness of gasoline vapors. Once a fire has begun on a boat it is difficult to get it extinguished. Gasification does not rely on flame but heat at least that is how I understand it.
I believe if you check, back when wood gasification was used to power boats in Europe during WWII there were very few boat fires. I believe a boat powered by a totally contained charcoal or wood gasification system is definitely safer than a boat powered by a highly volatile fuel like gasoline or any other such loose volatile fuel.
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Glenn,
Well, I have witnessed enough watercraft “incidents” that I might be overly cautious. If your “flames” (matter above 450 degrees F) stay contained, you are right, there is no problem. I worked at a nuclear power plant, and I have worked on high voltage systems. As long as you keep the “Genie” in the bottle, everything is safe and good! Keep the fumes out of enclosed areas by forced ventilation. That applies to all fuels. Give lots of elbow room and insulation around hot components. That is for practical access and fire resistance. Go by standard marine practice, which is different than building a house, or an automobile. Safety on boats and aircraft is at a whole different level of detail. If you want to build a woodgas watercraft, then do so! I am no expert on wood gas as used in boats in the past. I expect it was done out of necessity, and primarily working vessels.
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You are right Mike, it was done out of necessity. The secret to avoiding a fire on a boat is always to plan to be operating in the safest manner. Keep your bilge blowers working and hot surfaces isolated, and always prevent sparks from occurring. I think a boat gasifier would need to be isolated from all the hold areas of a boat.
The fact this subject has come up is making me feel much better about myself. I was beginning to think I had mental problems as I have been thinking along these lines for several years myself. Not just a boat powered by wood gas, but specifically a trip on a wood powered boat. That trip is something that most American boaters never think about. A trip around what is called “The Great Loop” It is amazing to me how few people have done the Great Loop. I finally realized that this adventure was beyond my reach like so many other things in life as time had caught up with me. I really think charcoal would be the best way to do it as it is more compact than wood. Wayne and several others have driven around the US on wood, but to the best of my knowledge no one has completed the Loop on wood power.
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Charcoal has a lot of power per weight but it takes a lot of room and depending how many hours this trip might take, you would either have a big storage area on board or stash fuel along the way. There are plenty of dry sticks along the shores to quickly make fuel for a wood gasifier. Just saying.
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That was my first thought also, Don, but then It occurred to me that the wood would most likely have to be dried out, processed into chunks and also stored on board as the charcoal would. I even thought about all the wood that drifts down rivers. I felt that charcoal would be more compact and since I have quite a large supply of oak, that converting that to charcoal and providing space for storage would be much easier in the long run. Perhaps a hybrid system would be best. I also have a Volvo Penta engine with outdrive, two propellors and shafts. I at first thought about a generator and electric drive system. That also has a lot of benefits to it like relatively constant load and the ability to have electrical power on board for other things.
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Don we are not talking about hours, we are talking about days. The fastest time around the Loop by a pontoon boat was 34 days over a time of 4 years and three boats. The fastest times without an extended stop are in the neighborhood of six weeks. I envisaged a purpose built boat, a cross between a flat bottomed scow and a V-hull powerboat about 28 to 34 feet long as you need living space on board. Pre-positioned charcoal would be advantageous. The boat has to be capable of big water sailing.
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Glenn, when traveling I take it they were not up on plane traveling at 50 mph. They were just crusing through the water like at 12 knots or so. A Volo Penta is a great set up in a boat. A friend of mine has a 27 footer it can plane on top of the water. But boy does it use up fuel fast. A charcoal gasifier would be out of fuel in minutes of crusing like that. I am thinking more trolling the motor and short distinance driving on smaller lakes not miles and miles of driving. For that you need dino fuel. Boats never get good fuel mileage period.
There are some new higher horsepower electric out board motors on the market now. Out of my price range. Simpler to just convert a inboard out drive to char/wood gas. Lots of older boats for free sitting around. Right.
I have only gone fishing in the boat 2 times this year because of the price of fuel. 20 to 25 times is what I did a couple years back and 5 years ago on a tournament bass fishing club 30 plus times a years. I love to Walleye fish also,
Good eating.
Bob
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yeah, right Bob most of the loopers take their time and enjoy the trip although there are some that use big powerboats with large diesel engines and spend thousands of dollars on fuel. At around 5,500 to 6000 miles it is going to take a lot of fuel. My idea was to do it without any dino fuel, which I believe would be a first although it’s possible someone may have done it with steam which I am not aware of. I do know someone is trying to do it with solar.I had envisaged a wood gas fueled generator running a pair of heavy duty 3 phase motors of 5 horsepower each. I have reached the age and health situation where such an adventure is beyond reach.
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