Does anyone have any experience with the GEET fuel vaporizer, from what I have read it seems to be a good way to run a gas generator longer on a gallon of gasoline. here is a link for plans
http://geetinternational.com/GEET%20-%20Small%20Engine%20Conversion%20Plans[1].pdf
Hi Richard,
Looked at it, in depth… Complete waste of time and metal.
How ya making out with your intake?
I like the hose Rob used on his, much less work than the way I had to do it.
I kinda think you still have a leak somewhere… My backfiring has stopped unless a significant leak develops.
Been alot better lately. On the next on I will spend more time making a good sealing area for the pressure relief
TerryL
I actually know folks that feel they gained with the GEET business. I have never played with it but I do know what backfires in my woodgas lines. I think I got all my air leaks plugged up and the truck is running great again. What I do have to add is where I come from (NYC area) we have an expression called JEET which translated means “did you eat” … ML
PS, for pressure relief I have my joints duct taped together so they just pop apart. I just re-tape them. Someone told me that Wayne had to stomp on his air cleaner lid after a backfire this last get together.
Good Morning Mikie,
Yes I have a spring load on the air cleaner that usually will handle an intake backfire . I was giving Dave Siedschlag a ride and had a back fire that inverted the air filter lid and I had pop it back into shape. I may have been showing out a little and had the throttle near wide open ( we were accelerating up to about 75 mph ) and the breather also took the blast from the intake manifold through the open throttle plates.
The son and I are out the door to the hay field , he’s firing the V-10 as I type.
BBB
Wayne, What do you attribute the back fire to? Lack of gas at almost full throttle?
Hello Peter,
I am not sure what causes the backfire / sneeze . Running motors with carbs and TBI I don’t remember a back fire . The multiport fuel injections are the only trucks I have had the sneeze . Sometime when it happens depending on the throttle opening I can barely detect it and the motor will be without power for a fraction of a second. It hasn’t caused any issues for me to give it a lot of thought but it could be a small piece of carbon flaking off the intake manifold and holding an intake valve open , the wood gas burning so slow that fire is still in the cylinder when the intake valve opens , or maybe some carbon build up in the cylinder glowing and ignite the incoming gas.
The frequency this happen can be a couple of times in a hundred miles or sometimes i can drive a couple thousand and it not happen. If the truck has had a sneeze recently the chances are I won’t be able to start a fire in the intake with my torch.
Morning Mr Wayne
Well the difference seems to be in your case from some intake gasoline wash down to none, with carbon/soot build up in the intake manifold.
Hey RichardC
All of these liquid to vapor fuel schemes have very poor loaded power capabilty (Bretts and others obsevation). LOADED power is just what you want in a generator set. They have very, very poor low idle load to loaded flexibility. Just what you also need in a variable consumer demanded gen-set. Clothes drier, well pump, welder on and off.
Vaporized with air mixed dense fuels have wickedly unstable flame fronts - means they go unpredictably BOOM with Any set off with the pressure flame driven front now driving even higher pressures, temperatures and energy releases. The people happy with these were featherfooted milage streachers able to double normal milages anyway with exterme, even dangerous techniques like “angel gear” (coasting in nuetral), key off/engine off running - all now requiring a bunch of safety systems bypassing. Point is they were willing to suffer for mileage claims a lot of grief.
Ha! Ha! Sounds like woodgasers alright! But out fuel gasses are only woosie Poof capable compared to heated vaporized gasoline Hot, HOT Ka-BOOMS!
The gasoline heat, magnetic and sonic vaporizing systems could back in the dumb mechanical gasoline carburetor days yield some fuel efficiency gains at the expense of drivabilty and Goes-Boom! safety.
Now with feedback controlled port and direct into the cylinder gasoline fuel injection systems they are now an old, old sick joke best left back with carburators.
My EFI Miller/Kohler generator kicks any heat/magnetic vaporizing and sonic systems butt on all fronts, power, economy, flexibilty and emmisions including noise.
And does this safely, is insurable, with parts and service from a national distribution network.
There are DYI retrofits for these gen-set adapable if a fellow wanst to invest the time and effort. Much better buck return spent this way. For ultimate bought out fuel efficiency and safety a fellow would just be better trading into a diesel gen-set.
Regards
Steve Unruh
My exp. with manifold pop-backs have been under low vacuum(open throttle) with week gas. Never at high rpm’s. Usually taking off from a stop. This is with both gasifiers.
I speculated valve hang either by carbon spec, or valve overlap.
Terry, That is interesting ----- NOS & gasoline will usually violently back fire under heavy load at too low an RPM.
I am pretty sure that the backfires I had on the way home from Argos were due to a tear in the flex aluminum directly after the cyclone. I was tooling along at 60 mph and came into a town and hit the 25 mph sign and as I was downshifting and crossing a railroad track BANG and then when I started to go through town BANG again. I just pulled over and plugged it all off and switched back to liquid. It had blown fittings at both ends of my underside line. This truck has a plastic intake manifold and I didn’t want to blow that apart, especially on a Sunday with 300 miles yet to go. I do want to mention that the truck was still running great on 100% woodgas after the 2 bangs but I had to choke it a bit more so I knew something let loose somewhere. I figure when I backed off the gas pedal the gasifier pushed hot gas ahead and maybe some slipped char and with the rip in the flex right there it just lit off. It was a BANG and another BANG and not a puff or a whooosh. If I was at home I would have just laughed it off and looked for the damage and repaired things but I was still in Indiana. The truck is running great on the homefront after repairing all those leaks. Unfortunately the gasoline return line started leaking so I had to take the woodgas trailer off so I can have the local good ole boy put it on the lift and replace the rotten piece of fuel line. I can almost do it myself but why should I ache for 3 days to save 30 to 50 bucks ?? I only have a couple more sacks of Ron L’s wood chunks to burn up yet … Thanks Ron … It runs good … Got up to 70 the other day and I’m talking a 2.2 liter pulling a trailer with a load … ML
Of the several videos I’ve seen with the geet modification, one showed a bubbler of 1/2 water and 1/2 gasoline. After a 10 minute run, both fluids had been consumed evenly. If an engine can run on half the fuel, that would be quite impressive, though there was no reference as to the efficiency of the 1/2 & 1/2 mix.
Paul Pantone seems sincere enough and the experience he had with the government seems to point to something they don’t want shared with the general populace. I prefer to stay in the realm of “provable” engine and fuel systems, and Wayne has that segment nailed!
BBB, Tim J
Good Morning All
Hey TimJ your last line says it well. IF the developer and promoter of any system can show he/she is using this daily exclusivly personally then it is maybe worth looking into.
WayneK does.
Vesa Mikkonen does.
Previously Harry LaFontaine did.
Anybody can come up with a limited use “Idealized” system and video promote it. Now show it in real life, under real life variable conditions. And then really, really look at what they drove up in for this demontration? What do they actually power thier house with? There shop? What do they actually heat thiier house, thier shop with?
I do look. Just in the last four years of woodgasification seen too many woodgas trailer queen system promoters driving on gasoline and diesel heating thier houses/shops with propane and natural gas. And powering on grid electricity exclusivly.
Say it. Then you do. Or shut up.
On these power with water promoters I have four decades of expereinces. Bah! They only ever at worst water motor oil contaminated and winter frozen locked up.
The different gasoline vaporizers systems sooner or later did go before into the engine cylinder Ka-Boom somewhere on the supply end. I personally have known people flash burnt, sharpnel shredded and one even killed playing around with gasoline vaporizers. Every 5-10 years one of the West Coast refineries goes up in Boom-flames from a refinery vaporized HC event lite off.
When Mr Pantone is willing to drive daily vaporized 365 days of the year anywhere to show his system full drivable in the US and Canada than he will prove himself to be real.
As far as government suppression of tech . . .
In the 40’s IF vapaorization was so benficial you bet the Germans would have pursued this and put into place embargoed instead of dinking around with low powered woodgas an super expensive Fischer-Thropse (sp) molocule by molocule systhetic fuels.
In the fuel embargoed times of the 40’s, late 50’s Suez Crisis, 70’s and 80’s fuel shut offs govenments of Sweeden, Finland, Swizerland, the UK and in France for sure would have put these water into fuel and vaporizing streaching into place IF THEY WORKED effectivly and safely.
The very cleaver fuel starved Japanese in the 40’s, 70’s and even now today. The import fuel dependent very now tech savy Koreans and Chinese today. Our Uncle Sam government has no sway over any of these. Many are even antagnonstic and would love to show up the US of A.
And this is just govenments.
Private companies do jump at being able to out ace thier competition. Boeing <-> Airbus
They have all tried these systems. Anyone putting anything even close to these in service bit the big one once they were in out in widespread use year around use.
My personal expereince was with the late 70’s Chrysler Lean Burn Systems. 13/1 up to 22/1 air fuel ratios. Factory installed on anything with a 318 engine. Only worked once fully warmed up and kept temperture stabliized. Sucky when cold with lots of dieing. Poor power in hot weather. Lots of bucking and snorting hot off idle accelerating across intersections. Lots of destructive backfiring back up out the carburetors. Reeled back in just 2 years. And like Fords EEK III’s, GM’s OPTISPARK systems quietly swept away to be forgotton.
Here in the US the private companies are especially good once they do get a deveploped tech advantage at dumping a few millons with lobbiests to get the Fed regs biaed to favor thier exclusive tech (Robert Bosch FI patents in the 70’s/80’s; GM calatytic converters in the 70’s/80’s; Toyota cutrrently with hybrid/electrics) to force thier compeditor to suffle them money in royalties or bankrupt drop out.
Games. Games.
Don’t let your self be gamed with spin.
Make the spinner: STOP. You say it. You prove YOU use it. Or shut up.
EG the fat cat Chrysler and GM execs private jetting to DC to plee for Gov’Mint bail out loans.
Regards
Steve Unruh
hello, just found this and figured id share my 2 cents worth
for a small generator or engine at a constant set load it works fine, but heres what you need to know
the rod is a bit useless, ive met paul pantone, and he will charge you 200$ and send you out the door without really helping you much, and then try and convince you to spend $3000 for his goofy class, i actually have all the info from his class for free without taking it since i helped the guy move and he left a class book in my truck, all his info is pseudo science crap, he tries to blow your mind with crazy stories (time travel, men in black, ancient myths) and wont actually turn what hes done into something that can be shared and repeatably recreated like this site has made such an effort to do.
when i helped paul move his place was the grossest house ive ever been in, with roaches, trash everywhere, and i drink alot but this guy had dead soldiers from months ago laying around everywhere he is the textbook definition of a dysfunctional alcoholic
he will go on and on about magnetic north and all the various “magical aspects” of the rod, and how going from cool vapor to hot will help cracking, how his plans are wrong to protect his secret, how a monkey wrench was stuck to a geet because of the incredible magnetism, how a non ferrous metal material used as a rod will become magnetic, how giving him money will solve your problems, he made some horrible suggestions that really made it not work right, its possible to build a vaporizer for a vehicle, you need something flammable to run an engine.
but heres where im at with the whole deal
you need heat and or vacuum to vaporize liquids PERIOD (paul said keep the bubbler cool to make it work best)
if you get oil hot enough you can get it to form a vapor that will readily ignite, gasoline at room temp makes a vapor that will readily ignite, heating it where all the fractions will vaporize will make more vapor than just letting air pass over or bubble in it, and as far as his demos with mountain dew lol, everytime someone runs their little generators they need a dose of gasoline, and as it runs out the engine runs like crap, if however they are using alot of veggie or used motor oil or crude the gasoline gets it started and it will run and use the oil vapor as fuel, one thing to note about motor oil is the additives dont burn well and leave a bunch of ash, the guys who run diesels on used motor oil will agree,
and vapor carbs can be pretty dangerous, im sticking to oil rather than gasoline for this reason
i also noticed in pauls garage he had naptha mothballs like crazy, so yea throw some of those in with just soda and you have something flammable
so long story short dont build a geet, build a heat exchanger that will get oil/fractions hot enough to vaporize,(tons of patents on the subject) and that will run an engine fine, even if water is in the oil it will work, there is no magic to the rod other than the fact it does obtain a readable magnetic signature (after a very long time of running) and most people find they get more power with out the rod, because the rod is blocking most of your intake pipe, that stupid rod that hes talked about forever and used to rip people off for years
and dont restrict your exhaust as it shows the intake restricted, he said that would help power aswell
like i said, i worked with him for a few months on designing it for my truck, asked him all the questions, built it like he said, and the thing wouldnt rev past 2000rpm and had no power on a brand new motor, and ran warm, (it was too lean without enough fuel)
i do believe the government has a vested interest in keeping oil companies profitable, and car companies have the same interest. suppression does happen, but alot of stories are bs. i have some views and examples on the suppression issue id rather not share… too much to type and probly not agreeable with everyone
Hi Richard and fellow wood gassers
I completely agree with Brentw on the Geet process.
I saw it on youtube, studied it very closely and then built a unit to run a 11Hp Brigs and Stratton, the engine ran a 12v 90 amp alternator that I had several sealed beam head lights attached to so I could place the system under load.
I ran the engine and Geet bubbler on 100 ml of pure petrol to get a datum to start off with. I can’t reminder the exact time but it ran for a good few minutes with 6 x 60w sealed beam head lights burning.
I then ran it with 50ml of petrol and 50 ml of water. It ran for less than half the time and there was a little water left in the bottom of the bubbler.
Then I tried 50 ml of petrol and 50ml of diesel , it ran for a good deal longer than on just straight petrol.
Then I tried 50 ml petrol and 50 ml old engine oil, it ran as long as the petrol/diesel mix but left some tar in the bubbler.
In conclusion you can vaporize any hydrocarbon in the Geet system and mix it with water/mountain dew/sugar what ever it will vaporize a little of the H2O but it won’t help your fuel consumption !
Thanks
Patrick
thanks Patrick, my adhd is so bad i completely forgot to add a few important things:
in the geet info it talks about how synthetic oils are extremely hard to crack, apparently organic hydrocarbons with low additives vaporize easily, crack easily and burn with minimal ash formation. the geet info says synthetic compounds will gum up the geet.
also i didnt state the parts about intake and exhaust restrictions clearly: paul said restrictions would help power. obviously a huge restriction hurts power and my build proved it further.
(another crazy story paul told was a cross country trip with no engine oil and no antifreeze, and no working ignition system was needed for his geet engine van) i began to wonder after that…
from what ive experienced many things that guy said were completely insane, or the EXACT OPPOSITE was true
and patrick, just wondering if you could answer a few things since i only ran mine for a short period of time on gasoline mixed with a bit of water only (then i ripped all that junk off), i never used oil:
did you see any plug fouling, or exhaust smoking, and did you ever try a run without your rod in the geet, did the geet gum up on motor oil?
thanks
and anyone else with geet experience feel free to chime in
I have encountered a few folks that have built and run small engines with the tubes and rod etc etc etc. One of them was pleased. It is refreshing to encounter someone that has actually met the man. His place sounds like mine so don’t visit if you are going to be judgemental. I actually do drive on wood and it is no BS. I almost always laugh anytime I do. In 1975 when I was working on solvent refined coal we did a lot of experiments that put ideas in my head of course. I have often mixed gasoline with diesel in my vehicles with very good results. 1 gallon of diesel with 9 gallons of gasoline will allow you to advance the timing around 10 or 15 degrees and on an old 1976 chevy impala wagon with a 400 brought it up from around 15 mpg up to around 18 mpg. I had a 72 or 73 ? Datsun wagon and it went from 25 mpg up to 32 mpg … When I would tar up my valve stems experimenting with woodgas years ago I would run a gallon of diesel with around 5 gallons of gasoline to clean and help lube things back up … Get er done … Mike
Hi Brent
No did not try without the rod.
And no did not seam to foul up the plug, and no I did not strip the system to see if there was any fowling of the internal tubing. After my test I decided that the guy on youtube (Paul) was having a laugh.
After looking further there was no footage of Paul running his Geet system for any length of time!
All were short bursts that any vaporizing petrol would run and not consume any of the wonderful fuels he claimed!
Thanks
Patrick
well thanks for telling me Patrick. ive almost gathered all my parts for my exhaust heat exchanger and ive measured the temperature of my manifolds and exhaust pipe. i was hoping for a 700 deg f measurement but i only got 550 F and it drops to 470 F about 3ft away from the manifold. this is enough to boil/vaporize oils but not enough to crack with out a catalyst or some other form of energy input (maybe glowing red nichrome wire). ive got an adjustable plasma ignition system in mind with a set of non resistor plugs, and even a set of those old “plug non foulers” just incase plug fouling is what i run into. im expecting to have it built and tested within a few months since its alot smaller than a WG system.
and Mike L, ive read some really interesting info on people mixing oils in the gasoline with a heated fuel line, even up to %50 veggie oil/gasoline, but at that point they started to loose power and foul plugs. some even put a heating element under the carb and got good results for 50/50 mixes. and dont think my apartment is picture perfect, i actually left out the grossest things i saw at pauls place to avoid making readers sick… as i (and my moving help) nearly was finding a restroom where it seemed like no one cared the toilet was clogged, ha ill leave it at that.
and most of my discontent with the man is just bc of the “guarantee of satisfaction” and then complete dissatisfaction without a refund, even this website has a refund! but i never asked for my money back bc the users of woodgas are everywhere and the advantages/disadvantages are all upfront on the premium side. they tell you all you need to know and even provide tech support, vs trying to contact a man whos never got time for you and telling you to build something by specs that he says will have enough power to over rev my motor to pieces, then its got 2krpm max unloaded? incredibly disappointing…
http://jamclasses.drbanjo.com/static/dimages/150.JPG
Hi Brent, My current truck (98 S-10 with 2.2 SFI engine) will easily rev to 5000 rpm on woodgas under load but I rarely push it over 4000 rpm. I’m from the old school where red line was always around 3000 rpm. It is OBD2 with wasted spark ignition and that system handles it perfectly !!! I don’t recall ever getting any code besides a lean code or low voltage on the second O2 sensor. Duh, NO GASOLINE … Mike
