All, The problems with the glass coated tanks
1, they wear out saw blades and drills fast !!
2, when you weld a fitting into one, the glass coating cracks and flies off and then that area is subject to exposure. Using a cutting torch anywhere will cause this as well. Galvanic corrosion will set in.
I could go on …
I prefer the epoxy coated tanks as they have a coating that will simply bubble off and burn up. This is what I am doing with my current build right now. I will wind up with a decent gauge bare metal hopper and base and exchanger. I do not plan to paint or coat it.
Rust is it’s own best inhibitor. You just have to have thick enough metal for the task.
The copper nozzles look good after 3 runs now.
Fingers and keyboard are near frozen … STOP typing …
2 cents, Mike
“Rust is it’s own best inhibitor.”
Mike, you know that’s not true. Otherwise why would we care about rust, anytime anywhere. Nothing would ever rust deeper than the surface.
Steel will continue to rust once it starts… thicker metal takes longer, that’s all. Definitely recommend thicker metal for gasifiers. But we have to coat it with something keep it from rusting.
Chris, Biggest problem that with the temperature extremes we run this stuff through it is tough to find a real coating to work with. If I accidentally run my hopper to the nozzles for example but have no place to pull over to refill and dump a couple of sacks in to cool things down, then the radiant heat from the char will cook the hopper walls. Goodbye paint there. Sometimes it makes it to the lid and gutters. The quote “rust is it’s own best inhibitor” is a quote from my dad, 40 years ago … Just build thick. Everything has a life expectancy and this is what we are all trying to figure out. We span around 3000 miles north and south (just in this hemisphere) so see extremely different conditions. I wish I could teleport you here for 5 minutes today and you’d teleport right back. My senior project was solvent refined coal … BS Chem Eng SUNY at Buffalo 1976 … I’m just trying to help. Haven’t made a dime on woodgas the last couple of years but know I need to keep folks moving on it as well as my self. Copper nozzles holding up well so far … Did you run suction tests on the plastic yet ?? I’m real curious about that … Thanks, Mike
Chris,
I rigged up a slat on my drum lid a few years ago so I could see how the lid deflected on vacuum … Here’s a pic
http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/simple-vacuum-guage.jpg
It worked well.Too much flex in oil drums for me to use them anymore. It was fun to watch.
Pic was from 4 years ago. I think Wayne saw that setup …
It’s friggin cold and damp here … Warm us up… Thanks, Mike
Actually, there is a type of steel with a “rust” finish.
“Weathering steel is popularly used in outdoor sculptures, such as in the large Chicago Picasso sculpture, which stands in the plaza of the Daley Center Courthouse in Chicago, which is also constructed of the same COR-TEN steel and as exterior facades, for its rustic antique appearance.”
I have to agree “rust is its own best inhibitor”. I have “browned” many barrels on black powder guns. “Browning” is where you heat the steel up enough to get all of the moisture out of the surface, then coat it with acid. It puts a nice patina on the barrel that doesn’t rust very easily. Recently the power company has put up a bunch of new high tension steel poles and they have given up painting or galvanizing them. They are using a heavy “consistent” coat of rust on the entire structure. I do not think this is practical for us though. We would have to heat the entire barrel up to just the right temperature before we coat it with acid. The fumes from the acid would not be good for us to inhale.
Are these the ones you are interested in Chris?
http://treasure.craigslist.org/fod/4377283172.html
$25 ain’t too bad.
Jim,
Those may work, I can’t be sure though. Those are a bit smaller than mine, and looks like they’re made to nest inside each other. The ones I’m using have molded reinforcing ribs, and are a direct fit replacement for the filter I’ve already got. Mine don’t nest, so I welded them stacked to make one tall drum. http://www.newpig.com/pig/US/nut-bolt-ring-open-head-colored-poly-drum-drm772
$44 each is still a decent price when you know they will last forever.
This could be another idea for preventing rust and having the advantage of the lightweight drums. http://flexsealdirect.com/?gclid=CJ2pk6znyb0CFUNqOgodaEkAiw My plan for right now is to build both my condensate tank and hay filter with drains that I can open using a lever from the cab. So it wouldn’t need to sit and hold the water until I get around to emptying it, I can just empty a small amount of water after each drive. This was mainly in anticipation of freezing temps but now it seems to have a secondary purpose.
What about coating the inside with EVERDRY? Also, is it possible or worthwhile to use the condensation to fill a hydrogen generator? Using the water and producing a little more hydrogen.
How much HHO will a typical hydrogen generator produce?
Typical gasser math is (for my pick up truck with) a 5 L engine turning 2000 rpm will need about 30 L of wood gas per second. typical wood gas composition would put the hydrogen being produce by the unit at about 18% of that or 5.4 L… per second… or 324 L per minute…
One company that sells a HHO generator says their unit makes 5 L of HHO per minute at 75 amps, and from what I have read that is considered a large unit… how much do you think that will help when it’s only .02 of what is already being produce by the gasifier itself.
I’d say invest your time and energy into your gasifier… you won’t need anything else
Steve,
Arvid is right, don’t be drawn into the HHO scam. Hydrogen does work and will run an engine but it’s only practical or economical in stationary applications with access to unlimited water and electricity - I.E. Near A hydroelectric plant. While it can be stored indefinitely it is grossly inefficient to produce. Much like ethanol it will consume more energy to produce than it returns when burned.
I’m still using the PVC filter I installed over a year ago. It is only a 6" sewer pipe, but you can get chunks of bigger stuff from city sewer installation dumpsters. I use toilet flanges to hook up to to the cooler and out to the engine. I have a panel on the side of it that comes off with a few screws to access the hay. I have to do that today.
Ive made a small HHO generator which produces by being attached to the truck battery, but only as a filler more or less. I agree its far to much input and not enough output. It was just a thought to perhaps use the water from the condensation. Has anyone heard of EverDry? Its a two part spray that once dry/cured is super hydrophobic and almost seems to expel water from the surface on which it has been applied. There are videos that demonstrate it, definitely worth the watch. I wasn’t sure if that would work in the application you guys were speaking of about the problem of your tanks rusting out. Thank you for your input. 
Hydrogen, I believe we use around 20 liters per SECOND of woodgas while cruising down the highway. If 20% of woodgas is hydrogen then we are producing and using 4 liters per SECOND of just hydrogen gas. Put that in your pipe and smoke it (literally) … dos centavos, Mike
Even the best HHO generator produces maybe a liter per MINUTE or 0.017 liter per SECOND so it would take 400 HHO generators to even begin to run a small engine. Of course woodgas is also 20% carbonic oxide which is also a major part of the fuel. To compensate for the lack of this it would take 800 HHO generators to actually run an engine… They draw around 20 amps a piece so 20 amps times 800 is 16000 amps … 16000 times 13 volts is 208,000 watts divided by 120 volts would require a 1,733 AMP house service to generate enough HHO to run a car engine. My house has a 60 amp service and most are around 200 amp … tres centavos and food for thought … M
Thank you, Mike, for doing the math on HHO generators. So, how much HP does it take to generate those 208KW needed just to feed an engine?
20% H IS BY WT. IT IS 75% BY VOLUME ?
Hi Larry and Brian, I always thought they were by volume at STP +/-. The reactions bear that out as well. I forget what the percentage of nitrogen is but it is somewhere around 60 so all add up to 100. Some reactors will displace some nitrogen so we get a higher percentage of H and CO. Most gasses at room temperature occupy around the same space per amount of molecules. There is also water vapor and CO2 in the mix as well. I think a 350 chevy engine will power a 40 KW alternator or there abouts so imaging 5 of these running full bore to make enough HHO to run one of the engines … This why we don’t mess with HHO … M
Woodgas on the other hand, is a dream come true. While cruising yesterday, all was so beautiful I had to wave to the sheriff when we met on County Road 23.
Have we come up with a definitive answer on what to replace the thin-walled steel barrels with or did I just miss it?