I would disagree on inverter longevity. I have a trace inverter that was a daily unit for 20 plus years and still runs occasionally for tools. My own daily user magnum inverter is 12 years old daily running now powering our whole work site. Usually it’s the control boards that go and they are all field serviceable or bolt off the wall and ship to regional dealers. I have found inverters and batteries far more reliable then generators.
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Chis it is probably a little late but before I bought a second generator I would definitely look around for a used pto generator. If you can find some dairy farms that are going out of business they will most definitely have one around 15kw which would easly be powered by the tractors you have on that property and would provide enough current for your entire home at 240 the farms need them to run the compressors to keep the milk cold.
I picked up mine from a tool truck of all places for $400 IIRC. Old unit but it works perfectly.
As to hooking up the generator to the power panel you have two choices old school A B switch.
You wire the grid to A the generator to B and the panel to the center. This makes it impossible to back feed the grid.
Or you can get a modern hybrid inverter for a grid attached solar or wind power system with storage which is much more expensive.
You can wire a 120 generator into a 220 panel but you must turn off all the 220 loads first or bad things will happen.
There are two ways to do this first is wire the neutral to the panel neutral. Then wire one phase to the hot side of the generator and you will get every other breaker on the panel live. But any 220 breakers left on will only see one phase which is dangerous to a 220 motor so be sure to shut off those breakers.
The other option is to wire the neutral to the panel neutral than jumper both phases in the panel to the hot line of 120 on the generator. Now you again have to make sure all 220 breakers are turned off and then you can power all the 120 outlets in the panel. But a 220 load wll see a dead short which would be bad in this configuration. My advice would be to split all the 220 loads into their own subpanel that is disconnected when you turn on the generator in either case. I hadn’t thought of installing a generator in that configuration until I saw it done by a solar installer at an off grid system. In that case there where no 220 loads on the system anyway so it wasn’t a concern.
Yup the typical thing that kills electronics is a spike on the incoming line voltage like the power company uses to clear limbs or a under volatile on the incoming line. My experience has also been that all the electronics on a standalone inverter are more reliable. The only issue I have see with inverters has been heat related from over loading or not providing good air flow for cooling.
One thing to keep in mind expecally with lithium is that you need a way to disconnect the DC loads at under voltage or you risk damaging the battery pack. I have a dead dewalt 20volt lithium battery pack because I used it to charce my cell phone in a power outage and the phone charger at 5 volts drained the pack so low it won’t recharge. The last time I saw this I took apart the pack and found damaged cells from over discharging. Direct DC loads still need to be controlled by the battery management system. Lead acid or Edison batteries would be more forgiving in that respect I guess.
DanA,
I am not disagreeing with you . . . .
but a saving-grace in Grid-out, for those Grid spoiled is to take away their 240 capabilities.
That means the electric hot water heater.
The electric clothes drier.
The kitchen range and oven.
Give them 240 wattage and they never learn loads management. Loads scheduling.
They never learn deamnds management when YOU: the system capabilities enslaved; continue to provide their . . . . un-thoughtfulness.
And when YOU can’t fuel input-wise keep them supplied; then they look at you as the not-loving-me-enough, failure.
Grid-down mean going cold turkey. Practice runs for going true no-Grid.
Yep. Good 'ol big ones are cheap at penny’s to the dollar out their. The fuel never was; never is cheap. Even wood to feed a 10-15 KW electrical system strips out a wood shed fast.
These inverter-generators when they get consumer oblivious overloaded: they stop all AC output. Just sit there running at Eco idle mode until manually reset. Or, shut down restarted, with reduced loading within their capabilities.
The oblivious Learn. Learn after 2-3-4 of these cycles just what they can use. Without the equipment damaging. No need to nag them. Let the circumstances do that.
Have 240 generating capability ONLY wire in the deep well pump. That’s it. ( Pssst. With a secret welder plug)
Just been my peoples experiences man.
Steve Unruh
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Doesn’t sound like chris is going down the 240 road steve just some sensible backup. I stick by wiring in a generator panel though as it makes things so much more user friendly without going all soft and easy.
My new house will be horribly soft with a large dedicated load panel, a 240 grid connected inverter, and a large array with battery backup… downright decadent!
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Of course DavidB,
You must to know how to professionally provide. And true use proof your systems. It is your business now.
Beats your carpenter days catering to more-money-than-sense additions, eh.
You get to now play with fire, watts, and real voltages.
Still . . . only those who can pay, get to play though.
For the rest . . . inverter-generators, as-needs-must; and extension cords.
Best Regards
Steve Unruh
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Hey steve. Funny enough it’s back to contracting for the next life phase. This year is all about our house. Next year well see what develops. Probably energy efficient building with solar elements. No harm intended old friend…
Cheers, David
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Hello Chris,
I have two inverter generators that are gasoline powered. When I first got them, I set up a monthly running schedule and followed it. I would run each generator (for 30 minutes to an hour) in the Eco Mode and use the output to charge the Electric Car, or take them out in the pastures to use with a 115 vac electric pole saw to trim branches on trees. After a couple of years, and several periods where I forgot to exercise them, they started needing a bit of choke to run at all times. Eventually, the jets and little holes in the carburetor(s) were clogged, and I had to do the remove/clean procedure. Then, I wished I had purchased the dual-fuel models so I could run on propane. So, they need to be used at least every two weeks, and the little valve at the bottom of the carb bowl should be drained, but still, the jets and bleed holes will clog. Make a note for each machine telling yourself the minimum number of screws and bolts you will need to remove to get the cleaning accomplished. In some cases, you will not need to remove the complete carb to get access to the clogged jets. Oh, one more thing. I see two 120 vac extension cord plugs on your machine. It probably has a GFI circuit on each one. There is also a higher powered twist-lock 120 vac, and on my generator, this does not have a GFI breaker. Get an adapter so you can use that outlet if the GFI circuit fails. (Mine did fail.) I managed to find the adapter at Wal-Mart. Also, they will be needed in the most miserable conditions you can imagine, with high winds, rain, snow, sleet, and you have to go outside to get them running. A well ventilated partially shielded area is most appreciated…
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https://up.craigslist.org/hvo/d/crystal-falls-kohler-lp-gas-4kw/7298811413.html
I have a few like this. I am not afraid to overload these with an air compressor starting, or an arc welder.
I am learning. The brushed armature ac generators are not damaged easily. They have heavy rotating parts that carry through a surge. They start by using the generator as a starter. That’s how you know they are dc brushed. Anyhow, I am learning to like these.
Now if I could make up a exhaust to water heat exchanger, I would feel really great using all that expensive gasoline or propane in these.
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With solar thermal they recommend taking an old gas hot water heater and using the center channel that the Smoke exits though as a second thermal flow loop to heat the water in the heater. I don’t know why you couldn’t use one as the muffler for a generator as well. Not sure how much heat you could pull out on the way but it seems worth trying.
Steve I don’t disagree with you either. I am in the process of going off grid solar so I have a slightly different perspective on generators. If you have storage a bigger generator isn’t wasting fuel it only limits run time to charge the batteries. But if you are just powering the loads directly you are correct it take alot of fuel to keep the rpm up on a bigger generator.
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Good post RayM
Matched my using experiences exactly.
All fine with repetitive exercising periods.
But I’ve slacked too. Then the problems.
Only one thing to add. These gasoline fuel sippers at 10 hours to a gallon, and 6 hours to the gallon have teeny, tiny carburetor orifices’.
I’ve had clogging from the commercial pump hose and nozzle o-rings particles getting into to my transport cans. Had carb clogging from my plastic cans threaded nozzles shaving a plastic whisker.
Fill these fuel sippers trough a painters disposable filter cone. Surprising what shows up against the white.
Dan and Bruce,
Yep it ain’t a waste if you put it to good heat farming, or can energy store it.
Sigh. But there goes your around, and about the farmstead, portability.
With acreage it is a poke to wire out and about.
And plain assed work to bring everything to a fixed power location.
S.U.
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This!!! Besides the pull rope…the eu3000i has only had fuel issues. We use 2 liter clear plastic pop bottles. We strain the fuel going into the pop bottles, let them sit, and observe for water fallout.
There is another problem, if the Honda is left out and running in the cold (-5F), its condensation at the crankcase breather will freeze and block the breather. This results in the crankcase oil being forced out of some other orifice, usually the oil fill plug.
Dan, this where you say the smart thing is to build an enclosure for the generator, and this is where I look like a horse with a sugar cube.
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I’ve had nothing but trouble with the carb on my generac since I was running char gas through it. Nothing visible, like soot or tar. I pulled it apart and cleaned everything but it’s still not right. Don’t have a tank of propane right now but I’m going to switch over and forget about gasoline. Had the propane carb on it for 9 years now and hardly ever used it.
Andy Schofield down in Traverse City makes wood gas carburetors for small engines. His shop is in lake ann, and he lives on 10th street in TC.
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It would be way out of character for me to drop in on someone Bruce, but I would like to see what others are doing . What is his business called?
Tom, I would look up his number and call him
Andy Ray Schofield 10th street. Or maybe Facebook. I don’t know, I don’t do Facebook.
You can tell I told you to call him. He is a nice guy.
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Actually this is where I think one more reason why I wanted a pto generator for my system I have had trouble with stand alone generators I think mostly do to my own actions and not running them enough. But for me it is one more engine I don’t need to keep running if I have a tractor.
By the way I think the same issue might have killed my uncles Honda and it was in a unheated shed.
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