Yesterday i was down in the bush with a petrol wood splitter, splitting some wood from a couple of gum trees that i had taken down 6 months ago , these are big rounds and are at least 150 kgs so cant move them far , also the charcoal gasifier i am using is also a fair size and weight , so moving that isnt a option for me on my own .
So late afternoon i hooked up my fire hose and ran it down to where i was splitting approx 180 feet of 1 inch hose connected to the air mixer valve and then the carb , 1 started engine on petrol and connected hose and waited for the splutter of a over rich engine and then opened air valve way open and turned off fuel and waited for bowl to run empty .
Yes it ran, but revs and power no where near as high as on dyno and it even split a little wood but without the power it was not really that good .
What do you think ? should i just make a smaller gasifier close to the splitter and hope i get the full power of wood on this 13hp splitter engine .
I’m amazed it ran at all Dave. You could try a larger diameter hose even a 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 sump hose would have far less drag. You could probably mount a small fan to pull it through the hose enough to counter act the losses… Or build a smaller gasifier nearby.
Just thought, David
Maybe a small point, but the “full power of wood” will only be about half that of gasoline. It will be interesting to see how that works out with a log splitter.
I’ll second David that a hose that won’t collapse is needed. Maybe a tank at the end to buildup a reservoir for spikes. If you try a fan; I’d try using the fan until you get the hose and reservoir filled, and then turn if off before trying running full time with the fan.
I have run a hose that is about 50 foot long. I don’t remember where the hose come from but I think it is a vacuum cleaner hose and possible a pool vacuum hose. Seems to do pretty good and holds up well. I took it on our coast to coast tour back in 2008 to put on demos with the generator and it is still holding up well .
I used the only hose i had to hand and that has a inside dia of 1 inch , like i said its a long long way to travel and wont bother buying that length of larger dia hose as it would cost more than the petrol used to run it i think , i will have 1 more play with it on monday and see just how much gas is managing to get all the way down and compare flare from up top too down in the bush , i have a in line fan so might even give that a go and see what happens , will let you know .
cheers all Dave
Just a note; did you set the air seting at idle or at full power? The air setting shuldl be different some since there is more drag at higher gas velocitys.
Hi,
The hose diameter is far too small. When we were working with the 6hp Listeroid project at APL, I used a length of clear suction hose - likely this product https://www.mcmaster.com/#hose/=1ckuh21
It was either 1.25in or 1.5in ID - and some 30ft to 40ft long . The data is buried in the old wood gas yahoo group posts from 7.5 years ago - October. The hose is reinforced and smooth inside. The hose and draw on the gasifier presented enough restriction that the hose would actually shorten with each intake stroke and ended up moving about rather dramatically. Mike L tossed some mats on it to stabilize it. Your 13hp motor likely runs near 3600rpm verses the 600 rpm of the listeroid so the suction pulse issue should be significantly less but will still be present. The issue is hose diameter, length, and pressure drop through the gasifier. I would approach this by determining the airflow through the engine and then using a hose sizing calculator to determine minimum hose or pipe/duct cross sectional area. PI x Rsquared. You do need to take into account the flow resistance for the distance. Here is a chart for air filter calculations that gives you a good starting point. http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/CFM.html
It should be stated that what ever result that you determine should be up sized if possible. these calculations can bu used or a site such as https://www2.iccsafe.org/states/oregon/08_residential/PDFs/Appendix%20A_Sizing%20and%20Capacities%20of%20Gas%20Piping.pdf provides pressure drop for natural gas flow through various sized pipe for distance.
It may be desirable to utilize other products than hose to traverse that distance such as polyethylene drain pipe or even corrugated field tile even though it has that issue with changing length with suction pulses. Then only purchase hose to make the final connections. Product like sewer and drain pipe is typically self coupling. The joints can be simply sealed with electrical tape. Well stocked plumbing supply houses will have extra wide electrical type tape for sealing joints. I checked and for 3" x 10’ Solid PVC Sewer and Drain Pipe ASTM D2729 it is $0.70 a foot at my local Menards. Pretty pricey for 180 ft but will definitely hold up. You could easily get by with something along the lines of an SDR 10 grade which is much lighter. Or possibly 3" corrugated drain tile - about $0.33 a foot. I’m wild guessing that calculations will show you need around 2 inch but maybe 1.5 inch will work. If that is the case - again cheap corrugated stuff - 1.5 in sump pump discharge hose would be $8 for 24ft - the same cost as 3 inch corrugated tile.
I think the 180 foot distance between engine and gasifier is a non-starter. In my limited experience, you will need to be running back and forth between the engine and the gasifier a lot, attempting to make adjustments to the engine, then running over to the gasifier, then trying to get some wood splitting done in between.
My experience is only with a generator, where the load is somewhat stable. But that won’t be the case with a wood splitter. The load will be varying all over the place.
Your setup may be a lot different from mine, but I can see you running as fast as you can go between the two ends of the hose, trying to keep the engine from stalling.
Like many others on this website, we heated with wood for well over 25 years. so I understand having rounds that are too big to handle by yourself. But we always managed to bring the wood to the splitter, even if we had to saw the rounds shorter and hand split in the woods.
I did manage to move a smaller gasifier down to the log splitter the other day and its running as sweet as anything on charcoal gas now .
Thanks for replying to my questions as i decided i was flogging a dead horse messing around over that sort of distance with the pipe i had .
My property is up in the hills and with a garden that has a slope of 30 degs its real hard moving big heavy rounds around , but i do have a splitter cone on the back of the tractor that can pick them up and carry them close to the splitter before breaking them into smaller more lift able sizes
I actually find this topic a real brain teaser, coz i need to find a solution for a similar project ( be it a little larger )
If using a dedicated fan, speed adjustable by vacuum, the engine would actual perform better.
I am wrapping my mind around it, figuring out how to do best… 5+4 = 9, but so is 6+3… i think this could lead to some nice innovative tinkering from one or the other…
This also has me scratching my head about using fans to overcome hose resistance and supercharging. I found an old 12 volt emissions air pump that pushes a lot of air but draws heavy amps. Blowing carbon monoxide is always a little scary compared to sucking it.
One of the problems that as been on going on with my truck is hose connection coming loose. The last time out driving I notice a noticeable power drop in engine performance, weak gas. The other day I was under the truck looking at the back suspension where I will be install airbags to level the truck. Found the problem, another rubber hose clap connection has come loose.
If I had a positive pressure at times in the system I don’t see how I could keep the gas pipe connections together. Maybe it’s time to put all new Rubber connections on in the troubled areas where they keep coming loose or a different type of connection.
I agree with you Bruce, you just can’t have pipes coming apart if you have a positive
change of pressure on your system. This could be very dangerous!
Any thoughts on a better rubber to plastic pipe connection, anyone?
Bob
Good plan Dave.
I have the same situation, kinnda’ sorta’.
Butt cut off variable length sections from a four years ago small patch logging on our forested property.
Even length cut down once/twice/thrice the resulting rounds are at least 300 to 600 pounds each. Too far into the now four year old re-growth trees to get the trailerable wood splitter back to them.
For me it has been 2-3-4 steel wedges and STILL having to chainsaw rip complete the spits on this gnarly compressed twisted grain butt woods to get these cleaved down into man handle-able 100-150 pound pie sections.
Then take these out to the wood splitter.
I’ve cheated a bit leaving these set aside’s out in the weathers for the last four years to age rot soften some. Ha! The pitch splits pockets in these butt cuts are just too good of an excellent preservative.
I feel your sweat and pains man. Regards.
tree-farmer Steve unruh
Bob,
My thoughts are: hose connections have barbs for a reason and challenging connections use double clamps are recommended. So use electricians tape, or other clever contrivance, to create a ridge that your hose can squeeze over and double clamp. As I was writing this I also got a flash of pan head screws with small washers passing through the rubber and into the PVC. Alternatively, you could use tiny pan head screws in the pipe to create the afore mentioned barbs.
My thoughts to add to what was stated
PVC pipe at above 200 degrees begins to soften and so would shrink under the clamping pressure
The gray PVC electrical conduit, while more expensive can handle much higher tempretures.
I used thin wall electrical conduit (steel) and now only have to worry about corrosion
True - temperatures would be a consideration - I forgot. Though - that said - we didn’t cool the discharge using the pvc/vinyl hose at APL. I have a GEK that is set up with a corrugated plastic hose on the cyclone discharge and though it does get warm - I’ve not had it melt - yet.
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