Don both chimneys where replaced in the late 70s or early 80s by my uncle. They are straight modern cement block with clay liners which are still in good shape. This house was basically empty for half the time they have been in. The front one is massive to support the furnace in the basement from the late 70s that had a 8 inch pipe on it. The back one is more normal like 8 inch square or so. Ironically i see no difference in how they draft even though one is probably 50% bigger.
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Someone needs to work on getting that repealed. I had not heard of that requirement before. That requires someone have utilities supplied to the home. No citizen should be required to have public utilities. That is just as bad as the requirement that a bathroom have a vent fan. I have Amish in my area who build a new home and have to install an electric vent fan in a home that isn’t even wired for electricity and will not have electricity. I butted heads with the local heath department when they told me a 2" well was not adequate for residential service.
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Location makes all the difference. Usually weird bylaw issues are local self imposed ones not the hand of big government. I know in the states it’s the home owner associations that do you in. There are always some weird local bylaws that make you scratch your head. Usually they relate to keeping up property values for “all” owners and we’re gladly passed by residents at some point. Times change and the bylaw seems restrictive.
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It will never get repealed. I retired from the building business in 2010 and in just about every year prior to that some new requirement was added and most were nutz and at least around here the building inspection departments went gestapo. I can’t imagine what it’s like now. I’d clean sewers before I went back into business here.
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Thanks for all the responses. I always learn a lot from your different experiences. There’s a lot of collective wisdom to be gleaned here!
After reading ALL the posts above, I should make a couple points:
-
We are exempt from building codes here. I need to triple check that with an architect neighbor of mine, but we are very rural in Owen County KY, and anything over 7 acres is considered a farm, therefore exempt. This is borne out by the very creative building styles I see all the time out here…
Also, our insurance company is OK with wood stoves, that’s why we use them. Masonry will be just fine. -
David reminds me that insulation is more important than the heating system. I agree 100%, and we will be over-insulating for our mild KY climate. I like that “pretty good house” site, I’ll do a deep-dive on that. I feel like the masonry heater compliments a well insulated house nicely. Also, the less I am reliant on convection (air) heat, the less I have to worry about airtightness, which is the main downside to modern efficient buildings. Radiant heat is better for vaulted ceilings like the one I’m planning, with a loft/overlook area over the living room. Hot air would just get lost at the ceiling.
-
Steve points out that feeding two fires can get tiresome. JO likes indoor boilers. Tom says the outdoor boilers are not very efficient, and mostly to satisfy insurance/code. I initially thought I couldn’t do a combination masonry & hydronic heater, but Dan Allard’s link to the Russian design points the way. It appears that Tom is doing the same type of thing. I think a thoughtful design will get me everything I want:
Also, our insurance company is OK with wood stoves, that’s why we use them. Masonry will be just fine.- One fire to tend, indoors, highly efficient.
- Central open areas get radiant heat directly from masonry.
- Back rooms get hydronic heating from masonry built-in boiler and storage tank
- Cooking functions a la Kristijan
- Summertime bypass, for cooking without heating masonry
- Stored hot water for domestic use and light heating days spring/fall
- Stored solar water heating in summertime. Probably from PV load shedding.
I’ll post more on the new house design when I get time. It’s going to be timber framed with a REMOTE building envelope:
Two story, roughly 2800 sq ft. That probably sounds big to some of you but remember we have a large and growing family. This house and farm will be my legacy to them.
We’ll be fully off grid solar, probably around 17KW solar panels with a modest battery bank and lots of creative load shedding (like stored hot water).
One last thing, for Steve…
Actually it was Mary who suggested we go with a masonry cooker, she thinks it’s fascinating. She’s been onboard with my unconventional designs the whole way. Part of domestic peace is matching up the right two people… We’re well matched.
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Chris,
Self Insured? No Liability Insurance?? Could get pretty real if something bad happens. Yes, I am afraid of giving the “system” the bird at this stage of my life, to save a few bucks. YMMV! 
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My guess is like a few towns in NH still his town lacks building codes and the insurance company only covers “farms” don’t ask me why it makes a difference but it seems to with insurance. My old farm house wouldn’t quality for insurance coverage until i got cows than all the sudden everything was wonderful i was a farm again. Go figure. Guess farmers are safer people.
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That is probably the best site for resources in north America for masonary heaters.
I don’t remember where i saw it but there was one i looked at for this old farm house that had a wood boiler like the one i linked to above in the basement with a fireplace on the first floor and a wood elevator like a dumb waiter to being the wood from the basement to the first floor. I loved that layout as it would allow me to put all the wood in the basement and bring it up without making a mess in the living space.
There was also a design that had a second fireplace half way up the wall or so. That chimney went to a second floor bedroom. I liked the idea of having a separate fire you could heat the upstairs with if you needed or simply not if you didn’t need the space. This farm house is a big building from the past and i debated building two heaters but as i don’t have a family it doesn’t really make since here.
As to the cook stove the old timers here would put a cook stove outside as the summer stove to keep the heat out of the house probably also because chimneys here down draft in the summer. I think i would build in the bread over that the smoke doesn’t pass through but just around but unless i had a big enough house to justify a livingroom and kitchen heater i don’t think i would build in the cookstove but that is just me. I think a masonary cookstove would tend to be too hot in the kitchen most of the time where you are. I might just find an old cook stove that you feed small wood and it cools off quickly. I have one of those that i refuse to setup only because it is too much work to heat the front of the house with the cookstove and i don’t use the basement furnace i depend on two wood stoves to heat the first floor here. Anyway my point was simply that an old cookstove you can move out of the house in the summer is definitely a plus.
Ian Cramb
Art of The Stonemason
That is a good book on stone masonary in general i would say it is well worth buying before taking on such a project as building a masonary heater. I don’t know of any good books on the actual layout of a masonary heater but there are companies selling a core kit for them that is all the refactoring block and you provide the outside facing stones or bricks locally. I wanted to recut my old granite foundation stones from the barn if i built one. I would just have to google the kits i don’t remember who makes them.
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I should clarify, there is a big difference in safety and code. From everything I can see, a masonry heater is far safer than a woodstove in operation. But whether it would pass “code” is the discussion above. I was simply stating we don’t have to deal with that aspect here.
I intend to build a very safe house, with all respect to relevant codes and best practices - and we will be fully covered by normal homeowners’ insurance.
This is definitely planned. Outdoor canning kitchen to keep the heat out of the house. Plus a grill / smoker / outdoor seating area.
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Looking at every side of a design and then looking at it again is key in my mind. No way to change my system now but as I mentioned, I have pipe grids in my fire box to thermosyphon hot water to a Large size oxygen tank and a I00 pound propane take to feed my hydronic floors. If I were to do it over I would drop that oxygen tank through the top of the fire box about a foot and heat that tank directly. They big mistake I made was having a lot of glass in the south face of my house thinking I would be getting solar gain. I never even thought about the fact that we have very little winter sun and a lot of winter wind in this area so I probably bleed enough heat off that glass to heat a small house. Trade off is really good views into the surrounding landscape. I envy you. If I were even twenty years younger I would build a small cottage that I could heat with a couple of farts.
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small cottage that I could heat with a couple of farts.
Tom,
Thanks, I needed a good laugh, 
my world too serious, lately. 
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Oh i forgot to mention. I am thinking of building non pressure hot water tank here. I built one with an edpm liner for my tarm wood boiler. The one thing i would definitely do differently this time is include a plastic float valve like the one below that is in my energy free cattle waterer.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007PYN6SC?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
My plan is to T that off the feed pipe for my DHW coil so the tank will keep itself full at all times.
I also want to build a stainless steel plate with the bulkheads for the water coils and the electric heaters from the solar system. That would allow me to seal the tank and not need to open it to make up for evaporation. That was a problem with my other tank and the metal ball value rusted shut in no time. So my plan there to simply open the tank cover and open a valve failed bigtime. I ended up adding water a couple times a year with a garden hose.
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Yup that is the way to do it Chris; have a plan in mind and seek input, use the advice to nip and tuck at your own ideas and then go for it. Use the online world for what it is good at and flip the bird to the detractors. I’m looking forward to seeing some house plans.
Enjoy the process…
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Hi ChrisKY pictures of our originally built in 1987 retirement house. Viewed from the N.E looking to the S.W. Was all current code back then. All adds and changes since then? Maybe. Usually not.
A split-level house. Open from the r.h. pictured mid-floor to the upper ceiling behind the upper floor three narrow windows and main floor square window. The 48-inch-wide stairways takes up 1/3rd of the width there.
I’ve had experiences and developed severe prejudices AGAINST open story “atrium” houses.
Old A-frames that you cooked in on the upper floors from the uncontrolled rising heat. Noisy too. Only thing noisier were big open spaces domes houses. Farts should not be announced thru three floors!
And Tri-level hillside stepping up floored homes I saw had heat heating control problems too.
This one though is not bad at all for levels heating control when using the central mass located wood stove on the main r.h. level.
Why? As you surmise that wood heat has no forced air. True radiant out the front of the glass fronted airtight woodstove. The in-living room items, north and interior walls; and the central heated stone works then radiating outwards.
The central area heated air then gently rises up the open center delayed by the ceilings space offset.
A big slow moving ceiling fan up in the atrium helps a lot. A wide two sides wrapped landing helps impedes the rising heats air flows too. Previous owner had these walled lined with bookshelves. Me too. Re-installing now ten, 31 1/2 inch wide, seven shelved bookshelves up there.
The two upstairs bedroom with their own air and noise control privacy doors.
Ha! Ha! As you can see the one, of two houses new in 2019 mini-split heat pumps service the upstairs bedrooms. Wood stoving, I caught them in a low AC cooling mode!! I’ve had to learn to juggle their thermostats sets. Once living there full time with the rooms occupied the opening and closing doors will solve that.
When heating only with wood the lowest level (usually a car garage) children’s activty/playroom does go too cold. One Cadet electric wall heater is needed. Maybe in the future I’ll re-locate one of the eastside mini-split heat pump unit down there.
I have seen a few houses with their main woodstove heater down there then heating source low and heating two floors upwards effectively in sub-2000 square foot houses. Has to be fairly open to get that done though. Then back to a noisy house problem.
And the not pictured west wall min-split heatpump system needs to have it’s one unit moved out from our N.W. Corner bedroom into the west end of the central short main floor hallway! The feeding both the westside bedrooms and the bathroom more directly. I’m sleeping far too hot to get the heat out to the too cool S.W. young girl’s bedroom. I pulled out the last house baseboard lousy heater there for child-proofing safety. 'Nother year or two if we still have them and they will be moved separately upstairs.
That main floor 2nd bedroom then becoming a visitor’s bedroom.
Important This!! For a true generational house you simply must have two main floor bedrooms. And the main floor bathroom must have a wheelchair accessible toilet and shower stall.
The front porch and rear deck on this place are wheelchair in/out level.
Not just for old folks. I spent the last half of my high school senior year on crutches. The first six weeks of recovery sleeping on the living room couch.
And any family can birth out a much loved special needs child. Hey, kids break bones too.
Most people build/design with denial blinders on then regret much later trying to adapt.
Mostly this house works so well because of the three previous owners added extra insulations attics and floors. Added outer walls layers. And the paint after paint, after paint sealed up interior walls. I can see the winds but not feel any drafts at all.
We bought this for the end of dead-end road with only four neighbors for peace and quiet. Privacy.
Figuring we could make this house work for us. Overall happy, happy with the property; the peace and quiet; and our “dead-ender” neighbors. We now only see, maybe 2-3 cars and pickups a day.
And this house is working out for us too.
Regards
Steve Unruh
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An attached greenhouse would be high on my want list and also a seed starting room that could be kept between 80 and 90F. That’s the beauty of hydronics. You can pull a separate tube run off the manifold and control it with a temp control shut off valve for a specific task. Also if you are going hydronic slab on dirt spend the money to insulate under the slab. Back in the early 90’s, when i designed my house, there was a lot of discussion about using the ground as a heat sink instead of just heating the slab. Being cheap I went that way and have never been happy with it. The only upside is my floors are still warm even in the spring after we are not running the stove any longer. Takes a long time to get them up to even a steady 65F though.
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Tom did you insulate off a section of ground under the foundation? The design i remember from about that time frame was about 2 or 4 feet of sand which was insulated off from the ground under the foundation with heating coils plus the foundation was built with insulation from the ground on the sides. I always assumed the problem with such a system would be getting it too hot as you would not be subject to the cooling from the ground. But i never saw it built. I have seen people just run heating loops below a foundation that seemed hopeless to me because the thermal losses to the ground would be very high without thick insulation.
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That has been my experience as well. There was a lot of talk about heating a reservoir under the slab for years. It seems to have been an idea that didn’t pan out as I have not seen an example of people happy with it. Nobody has enough heat to charge up the soil and you have a lot of heat that bleeds out so it absorbs heat but dissipates it back to the soil. A lot of those passive solar musings and solar storage ideas did not work out for my colder climes. Chris has a milder climate so probably would work better for him. Our slab here has 4 inches of sm foam under it and an over thick slab for extra mass with embedded tubing. The slab is my version of a masonry heaters reservoir. I prefer to incorporate the mass into the house than give up floorspace to a chimney. It takes about 12 hours to bring it up to temp but will hold it for days. It’s the backup heat and we don’t use it much but I wanted the tubing in in case I wanted to go the wood boiler route down the road.
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This was originally planned as a Earthsheltered house Dan. The south face is three foot in the ground and then the glass fills the rest up to the 9 and a half foot ceilings. There is R-20 foam and the side walls but nothing beneath the slab. Actually it’s slabs with a base 4 inch pour and then the PEX in another 4 inch pour on top of that. The house was supposed to have 2 foot of dirt on the roof and banked up on the sides. Because I had to get out of Ironwork due to asbestos exposure I needed to find a new way to make a living and since Earth sheltered were no longer popular by the Early 90’s I started a residential building business and as a demo I converted the design into a two story conventional house, but the partitions on the first floor were already in place as concrete filled cores in 8 inch block so a massive amount of mass right there. Because the second floor was already built to carry the earth load I just ran PEX on that in a 2 inch concrete cap over the decking. 2z6 walls on the second level with R-19 and 2 inches of foam over that and a one inch stucco coating. I have built houses since with hydronic floors in insulated slabs and heated them with just NG hot water heaters designed for the purpose. Supposedly the earth remains at 50 F at an 8 foot depth but I have a 10 foot deep root cellar and it drops into the mid-thirties when it gets real cold out and real cold in this area is seldom below zero F and usually high single digits. There is always enough early snow so that you can excavate in the dead of winter with no frost. Except for the last couple years when Snow is down by about half and we get bare ground occasionally… The best houses I have built for others were ICF walls with 2 inches of styrofoam under 6 inch heated slabs.
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Some pictures of the front of the house. 3200 sq ft and it’s been totally heated by wood for 24 years. Kind of ridiculous how much effort that takes when we could do perfectly well with 1000 sq ft but we are all set up to finish our days here and between greenhouse, root cellar and “underground storage” we could never duplicate what’s here. I was going to mention that all the PEX in run in 12 inch loops and the water from the pipe grids in the stove runs right around 140F so by the time it makes it through all the floors they never overheat. The second level floor stays right around 70F
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Yup Dana and I have been staying in our 25’ motorhome at my Sister house when we go down there. Cozy and warm but no wood heat. That would be nice if I could have that in a motorhome. But the electricty is free to heat it. You really do not need a great big house like I live in. It is all the stuff I have collected that has caused this.
Bob
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