Hello, I am some sort of new to woodgas. Now it seems that the Missouri gasifier is well suited for sawdust.
Since we work in the woodindustry, there is sawdust everywhere. Are there any complete plans of the msg 80?
Thanks, says a newbe that can t wait to start welding.
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Hello Joep and welcome to the DOW .
You may want to follow this thread of the sawdust gasifier by my buddy Doug .
Also if you go to the library there are detailed plans for the mgs-80.
Thanks
Wayne
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Thanks Wayne, yes I read that. None of the links seem to work anymore.
This guys got me really ethusiastic for the Missouri.
Found the library too, but a little difficult on the Phone. Good to see that these are detailed, top! I will take a further look on a big screen!
Thanks for the quick reply.
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Hello Joep.
I just scanned across this one . Looks like a lot of reading !
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Thanks, I am reading that right now. It seems that I have to find a Swedish Gen Gas Book!
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Hi jeap Welcom too Dow as Wayne Keith the web site owner just stated. i am no expert at sawdust or even wood chunk gasifiers, But compressed sawdust instead of chunking wood might not be so bad if you have it in volume sitting around too use too drive with. Good luck with you project i bet there are some experience pellots gasifier tinkerers too help with your addvise.
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Well, the plan is to use sawdust, not pellets or briquets. This, because you need a lot of power to make those things. And power is already Always to short. PV is doing a great job in the summer, but now we need heat and lots of power. So far, very interesting , the S-80! Looks like exactly the thing I am looking for.
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Not really you can get a pellet mill on Ebay / Amazon that only require around 3kW power. This is nothing compared to a wood chipper or chunker, especially when you consider the fuel drying is part of the process. Also pellet fuel is three times more energy dense than raw chunked or chipped fuel. So keep this in mind when compare volume pr time produced. When you factor in no sorting process, no waste, no drying and the energy density of the fuel; pellets beat chips and chunked fuels. These cheap mills can produce 200 lbs of ready to run fuel pr hour.
You will want to compress the dust into a usable fuel, saw dust isnt very energy dense pr volume. I built a machine to run dust and it burned it faster than you can possibly feed the gasifier. I dont know much about the Missouri machine so I cant input if it would work or not. Seems if it did it would not be so hard to find info on it or video of a working model… My guess is it dont work but could be wrong.
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Seems like I saw a video of Doug’s friends running a truck on sawdust but I might be mistaken.
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I will have too agree with Matt Rider. He has many years experiance in engineering and building testing gasifiing engines. It takes about a barrel of chunked pine too go 80 miles average, and chunked wood is way more dence then saw dust.? It takes about a pound of wood a mile average 4 cyl. some of the v8 dakotas are getting 1.3 miles per pound Due too there supper tall over drive gearing in crues mode when working good.
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You are right about the weight ratio of course, but it is for a stationairy solution. I hope that is why you don t see gasifiers on sawdust.
And if you think it is hard to make a working gasifier, try making pellets! Aside from the grey hair and time consuming operator controlled proces, there is no financial payback.
Until I know better, it will be sawdust. Problems of conveying, screwing etc are solved. We installed a nice bunker in a dust extraction system in a woodfactory that makes briquettes from the waste. Very happy with it and now I dare to think of a gasifier again.
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The download in the library is very detailed! Very nice!
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It only takes 5 kgs of pellets input too produce 100 kgs of pellets. Thats a 95% return. This is of coarse with out energy of producing the dust.
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I did make some pellets. It turned out you need 1 kWh to produce 10 kg of pellets. That means 0,25 kg dust to make 10 kg pellets. Rough calculations say , we need 5000 kWh in winter. That means 1250 kg wood with 100% eff. IC motor with gasifier has 20% eff? That is 6250 kg sawdust and that is 25 m3. A lot but not impossible to handle.
On top of that the extra for making pellets. Not impossible to, but like I said. Try making pellets. Impossible without operator standing next to the machine. 3 kW machine makes 30 kg pellets every hour. That is 7,5 euro an hour and you cannot walk away. There are better ways to throw away time.
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Um you would be far better off automating the pelleting process verses trying to flow dust thru a gasifier. If you think feeding a pellet mill is difficult, it will be 100 times more difficult to flow dust thru a gasifier. Its hard enough flowing chips, chunks or pellets and at the smaller scale it gets even more difficult.
Most of the Chinese mills claim 100 kgs or more pr hour with 3 kW input.
Typical gasified engine is going to consume 1.5 kgs pr kW/hr produced. So at 3 kW it will consume roughly 5 kgs pr hour. This is not a guess, this is known and typical for most gasifier systems regardless of fuel type.
Pr volume I imagine you will need a pretty massive hopper to feed the machine to get any run time. Again already a big challenge running dense fuel. One of the reasons I moved to pellet fuel. I get twice the run time of my old chip fueled machines with a hopper that is nearly half the size.
Id love to see you succeed with a dust fed gasifier along with many others here. But as I see it, if it were possible and viable there would already be videos and info plastered all over the internet of working machines.
Building a gasifier is not easy and will be a huge challenge especially if you are looking to make it hands free. The machines i build are fully automated and run just as well if the engine is running on gasoline. No engine stalling and are consistent power output. It took 8 years of development to get to that level with lots of money supporting that development.
So carry on, I would like to see this but I also want to point out the challenges and to offer the alternative in maybe automating the pelleting process instead.
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Thanks Matt. Automating pellets is a no go. I have a 7,5 kW press with 16 m3 bunker, grinder etc etc. Some winters I got the house warm with it, but like I said, there are better ways to spend time. Briquettes may be. That can be produced intermittend. Pellets is warm up, cool down and in between a constant flow. If something is wrong, everything stops and all starts over.
If the Missouri concept is ok, I will give it a try. And now no try and error but 100% right away. Ferrytale? Probably. And then I wake up.
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One look turned me away from the “Missouri”. Opposing nozzles!
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Opposing nozzles? Why should that be a problem?
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Hi Joep,
I’m not sure I read this anywhere, I’m just looking
at the nozzles not interfering with the depth of the
air stream penetrating the nozzle zone (the heart of
the process). One nozzle blowing directly opposite the other
(imo) may reduce the effective penetration of the air stream
possibly reducing the core temp, that’s all.
No real evidence it does, but think about
2 air streams pointed at each other and tell yourself it’s still
going to penetrate as far as possible as nozzles not directly
opposite each other. I believe the odd number
of nozzles is the best configuration. Your design will work
but probably not as effectively as possible, that’s all.
Pepe
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Hi Pepe, I have read in some of the old books on gasification they would used 3 and 5 nozzles but they also used 6 and 8. I have 12 nozzles. Let’s face it is really hot in the fire tube area and all the charcoal in that area is burning and moving down the fire tube until there is no Oxygen to keep it burning. This is when it all happens CO2 becomes CO and H2O becomes H2. You would have brands in this area if Oxygen/Heat was not getting to all the wood, changing to charcoal. I think more nozzles the better up to a point. 12 nozzle might be over kill. Lol
Bob
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