Newer Donor Vehicles

Their website states “Factory OEM and OBD2 not supported!!!” on the ordering page. It’s intended for programming Megasquirt/Microsquirt and Speeduino ECUs. These are made to be flashed over and over again, where the stock ones are not.

https://www.efianalytics.com/register/viewProduct.jsp?productCode=TunerStudioMSUltra

Folks, I think we need to step back from the discussion about “should you do this”… There is a whole separate discussion to be had about what’s the best approach. But ultimately each woodgasser has to work with what’s available to them. In some areas of the US, 92-96 V8 Dodge Dakotas were/are plentiful, and it’s easier to follow Wayne’s layout than to innovate. Indeed there isn’t another factory-stock V8 light truck that I know of. Your other choices are to engine swap, or deal with the stock power output of a 4 or 6 cylinder. I think we should embrace the swap, its not that hard to do. If you can build a gasifier and mount it to a truck, you can swap a motor. Gauges and controls are the hard part, but not impossible.

Let’s set aside the notion of “this isn’t the right approach, just get a Dakota”… those who can do that, are doing so. If you instead have access to very old vehicles with carburetors, you’ll be learning to make those work instead. That at least gets you around emissions. But a lot of folks are surrounded by cheaper newer vehicles. The discussion at hand is, what vehicles from 96 onward are candidates for conversion? For a lot of folks there are few other options.

This is also not about money. Those of us in this to save money are used to working with 30+ year old vehicles regularly, gasoline or otherwise. But the market has shifted to where a mid-90s truck may cost the same or more than one from the mid-00s or even early 10’s. I just paid $2,000 for a 2004 Suburban 2500 6.0L 4x4 truck. The body is rough, frame is solid, engine runs perfect. I can’t get anything comparable from the 90’s for less than that, and I wanted into the newer platform anyhow. I’ve owned the 90’s versions and they have their own problems. I feel confident I could run woodgas on this vehicle with no major issues, except where to mount it… It’s not a pickup. Maybe a swingaway bumper mount.

But what about the folks that aren’t here to save money? This is freedom fuel, but not free fuel. It all costs time and money anyhow. I’m not talking about spending 50K, but maybe around 15K. What is the best woodgas vehicle option in that price range? I bet that opens up the market beyond 90’s Dakotas. You can get already engine swapped vehicles for a little over that cost, or get the donor + swap an engine for about half or 2/3 of that.

Bottom line, woodgas can run almost anything. Restricting it to mid-90’s Dakotas has never been practical in Europe, and is increasingly less practical here. Let’s explore our other options.

15 Likes

Hey ChrisKY, for your long chassis Suburban conversion do go view John Stouts long wheel based Ford Van conversion for the concept. On the “Celebrating the Classic Woodgas Vehicle” topic. Drag’nwood YouTube starting at 11:15.

For the reprogramming of the OEM OBDII PCM’s I’ve done nearly 100 thru dealerships.
Look up the PCM pinouts and you see always at least 2-3 actual 12vdc voltage inputs.
Some PCM’s by the time needed to reprogram were obviously only high voltage erasing then rewriting only a section of the PCM. Some turned out (45 minute to over an hour) it was obviously a complete wipe, and rewrite.
I was doing this only up thru 2007. Later very possible the overwrite was more a commanded specific files over-write.
We had new Federal compliance lables we had to apply underhood on to these vehicles.
Two of my “updates” failed; lobotomizing that PCM. One a bad-bad local lighting storm taking down our shops Internet connection at the wrong time. The other: another Tech snatching off the shops Scanner, interrupting; while my back was turned. He got fired.
Both vehicle then down for 7-10 day waiting for a a completely new pre-programmed PCM.

Annual and bi-annual vehicle inspected areas are the real difficulty in using Newer Doner Vehicles.
Here US, Canada, other big geographically areas best approach is to move out of inspected areas.
Country locked in to mandatory inspections then unfortunately you will have to go old, exempt; or an expected minimalist original system as in pre-OBDII’s.
You poke and taunt the Inspection Bears too much, too often, then you’ll get to live in my decades of purgatory.
S.U.

12 Likes

That sounds like a very interesting project. I’ve been looking for vehicle to convert to wood gas that has seating for several passengers. The suburban was on the top of my list. It would be interesting to see how it turns out.

7 Likes

I hould have looked that up, I heard that information from a youtube video on performance tuning with a factory ECU. or maybe they changed it so they didn’t get sued by the EPA.

HPTuner is the other one, but Matt tried it, and said it was complicated. It is intended for Speed Shop tech, not the average user.

The Speeduino, seemed like a better option, because it can use a faster processor, has more memory, and has source code available. Which to me, makes it easier to add features like hypermiling, or adding an automixer, or various switches and monitors/logging, etc for the rest of the system. And if someone knew like KiCard printing up a board with connectors on it, having it printed and assembled with components might not be outrageously priced, but I also realize, while I don’t know exactly how to use say KiCAD most have never heard of it.

5 Likes

I don’t remember what thread Rob383 was discussing this stuff on but I’m thinking that HPTuner was the program he used.

2 Likes

This?

4 Likes

Very good writeup Chris!

I think that explains very well what we are looking at with this.

7 Likes

Chris what year models and vehicles were you thinking about for the LS motors .

4 Likes

Hey JacobN.
There is a ton of videos out there on LS engines swapping and even books.
Favor the guys who do the least “need to Aftermarket improving” but use adapted over stock systems.
Like this guy:

And this guy:

Just exploring and watching thier channels is an education.
Regards
Steve Unruh

8 Likes

Anything from 1999-2006 is going to have the non-AFM LS engines. A few nuances will push you towards 2003-up. You have four engine sizes to pick from, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L. Obviously bigger is better for making power, but it depends on your goals. The 5.3 and 6.0 are the most common in the trucks. I’ve got a 6.0 in the 2500 Suburban, and it has plenty of power on gasoline. Way better than the old 350 in my older 1500 Suburban. I’d love to try a 6.0 in a lighter vehicle on woodgas. I also think a 3/4 ton with the 8.1L should rival a V10 Dodge on power output, for a fantastic woodgas work truck.

As far as vehicles, there are plenty of stock vehicles that came with LS motors. Obviously the pickup truck format is the easiest for woodgas. Anything else we’ll have to get creative, like I mentioned with bumper mounts or trailers.

And then there’s swaps, like Steve points out there are tons of people LS-swapping everything you can think of. I have a site bookmarked, seems to be dead now but the wayback machine saved it, this guy figured out all the details for putting LS motors into our Dakotas. Could be interesting for a testbed, the truck itself is a known quantity.

10 Likes

It would have taken me longer than that to get the connectors unplugged.

2 Likes

TomH. I learned years ago to spray wet down weatherproof plastic electrical connectors with silicone spray beforehand. Then both sides wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. Then spray again.
Silicone spray up past a wand probe/pick edge lifting on hoses and vacuum lines does wonders too.
I’ll use any brand silicone spray supplied.
Me, buying; I search out and pay more for the WD-40 brand as the wands are pivot head fixed and do not blow off lost forever. Saves a lot of product versus a wide area spraying.


S.U.

11 Likes

Maybe 2005 and up they had a 5.3l flex fuel which also may have a metal intake. But they didn’t offer it pre-2005. In 09 they had a 6.2, but i think that is the next series.

3 Likes

If people have time and are shopping around. I would possibly be interested in a 2003-2007 probably a 1500 truck .

I’m with Chris I would like to try the 6.0 but a good enough deal on a 5.3 probably would work.

I am looking for something probably under $5k and with under 160k miles on it. The only other thing is I need it to be 4 door.

I am looking for a vehicle right now. The transmission in my old mini van is slipping so it is going to need to be replaced. I need a vehicle that is in good enough shape for road trips. I might not get to the gasifier right away but if I have the vehicle I’m one step closer. And I can use the truck to replace my van for the time being.

9 Likes

Also probably worth mentioning it is going to have to be a really good deal to drive a long way to get it so southeast is where I’m looking.

8 Likes

Just an idea and I’m sure there’s cheaper options than this, but since splicing and tapping wires for existing O2 Sensors can lead to issues down the road, I found this direct OBD2 Serial port gauge. Also nice that if you wanted to hop around to different vehicles it’s all self contained.
It actually can display a few different values from the computer like spark advance, AFR, etc.
https://a.co/d/5pf4y45

Edit: This gauge only works with 2008+ vehicles

7 Likes

OK, for us less technical folk how would that be used please?

2 Likes

You plug it into the OBD2 Port where you’d normally hook up a Scan Tool for diagnosing check engine lights, and if you’re using the Air Fuel Ratio you can get a better mixture of air and woodgas. The upside to this is you don’t have to do any splicing or wiring, it’s powered by the OBD2 port. This is basically a Scan Tool shaped like a gauge. You can select through different modes to check on different sensors, like coolant temperature, spark timing, manifold pressure etc.

This will only work on an OBD2 vehicle(1996 and up) obviously. Some people are saying it may only work on vehicles made from 2008 and up, I’ll look into it more to make sure.

Edit: Okay yeah it seems this gauge only works with 2008+ vehicles that support CAN BUS.

7 Likes

I understand the computer in the vehicle controls just about everything, not how it does so or how to adjust settings in the computer. If I’m asking a silly question please forgive. When you say “if you’re using the Air Fuel Ratio you can get a better mixture of air and woodgas” are you saying the gauge can be used to control the ratio? I am thinking along the lines of a street rod show a few years ago where I saw they were using a cell phone to control various aspects of a car’s functions, I seem to remember the air/fuel ratio was one of those they could alter. It was in conjunction with a bluetooth unit connected to the OBD2 serial port. That’s where the question derives from as this seems it might be similar.

3 Likes

No it’s not controlling the AFR, you’re just able to see what the AFR is and can tune it yourself when running on woodgas by choking or opening up the air mixture.

What I linked doesn’t change settings in the computer other than clearing codes, it’s just to view what the computer is seeing. It’s just a gauge.

1 Like