These cells here are amazing and extremely cheap!! 72 of these are 2.1 kW/hours. A typical 12 volt lead acid battery are generally around 500 to 700 watt hours. So you would need at the very least three of them and at over $100 bucks you will be over this pricing and they degrade the first charge cycle and every charge cycle afterward.
A quick note here. If you want your batteries to last, you need a large enough bank where you are not hard cycling your batteries. If you are only maintaining them they can last a life time. This is never allowing them to go much further down than their nominal voltage. If they are not depleting past this you are maintaining the cells not cycling them. So figure out what you need and double it.
Only problem with these cells are the BMS for Lipo are special order out of china. This is for a BMS that can handle off grid applications with higher charge and discharge ratings that these cells here can achieve.
When I have time I plan to do video on how to build these cells. These are cool as they are pack cells and designed bloat when and if they fail. So you need space between them for this. I plan to bolt them together, then wrap in shrink wrap and then encase them in epoxy in a package about the size of a typical 12 volt battery.
The next step will be to build an Arduino based BMS built specific for application. There are voltage dividers that can read up to 28 volts on market. So I could build for 12 and 24 volt systems no problem.
My experience with junkyard batteries is I would have saved a lot more money and a ton of space just buying new. All the batteries I bought quickly failed or did not have capacity. Unless you can get them nearly free or for free I would steer clear of them for off grid. But even new I was only getting 8 months of use. However I was fully hard cycling my system everyday as I am not running solar yet. All power is from ICE power. In a way for me anyways we run the genny for shop power and this sort of like having solar on the RV as I have to run that genny anyways. So I get a full during the day.
Next generation systems will heat as a primary function while producing power for battery charging on demand. I plan to build a very big bank using those pack cells for the shop and the power generator will only run when we need a charge cycle or are running the CNC machine and production welding . Later Solar will help sustain this further.
I agree 100% with what Matt says about junk yard batteries , i have been very lucky having a friend that owns a scrap yard and allowing me to have my pick of the best ones that have come into the yard over the years , but you need to carry and transport them home and then carry them to your battery shed all before they can be properly charged and tested , its ok i guess if your a fit young fella , iām sorta past it now and decided to dip into the wifeās savings for the lifepo4 , i wont take them down hard and so i have been told i should get at least another 2000 cycles and maybe a lot lot more it all depends on how hard the bus company used them before i got them .
By the way how times have changed here in Australia on a weekly basis i see solar panels between 170 and 250 watts being offered on facebook market place for free by installers that are doing a change over on insurance or upgrades to newer higher wattage panels and also grid tie inverters , never though i would see the day where i am not rushing out to collect free solar panels , also ā¦ and this is crazy my friend gets them brought into the scrap yard now , last week i couldnāt over look 18 Canadian solar 250 watt panels all in excellent condition that came into the yard and now sitting in my yard waiting for a roof to call home
Dave
Referring back to BrucePās initial plan of just getting a Honda 7000 inverter unit.
Then just get a used electric forklift complete. (BenP did this in 2010) These usually have 8,000-11,000 hours worked use on them. You donāt care about working it. You just want the 12vdc, 24vdc, 36vdc 1500-5000 pound lead acid battery and charger. Moving on itās own power and wheels is The bonus.
Two researched purchases and you are there.
PNW here for me this would be no more than $7-10,000 usd.
Now woodgas/charcoal gas fuel that nearly 500cc Honda engine.
What? $1,000 to build that.
Then a solid 3-5,000 watts an every hour that you choose to DIY fuel run it.
Build the gasifer side of it for 4 hour batch runs. Do two generating runs a day. Schedule the heavy use loads in those times. Battery bank supply the rest of the time.
I saw all of this develop as a real doable back about 2012. Took the Honda Inverter-Gens to make it possible. Electric fork lifts been around for a long, long time. They do offer 7 year warranties on these types of battery pacs new. 12-24 months warrantee for a reconditioned battery.
AND these do get daily/weekly deep discharged factories and warehouse worked.
Why do most on forums have to make things such a big deal??
Oh I know now. I know too well now.
I too drank that lemon-aid too long. Got the massive Trace Inverter and 10kW brushless 1800RPM Mecc-Alta head still in storage here. A custom made double sidewinder pulley for the CS Listeroid to drive that Mecc-Alta. All these = a 3000 watt Honda inverter unit new. Add in the now sold 12hp 1000 rpm 950 pound Listeriod = that is a new 7000 watt Honda inverter-generator.
AS BruceJ. said . . . . if I had it to do over . . .
I wonder Bruce . . . think anyone will read and listen, eh?
They sure would not on the MIcroCoGen.
Steve Unruh
I found a picture of the original off grid machine. There was a comment about why one needed a 15hp motorā¦well one of the topics is Thrive Off Grid. With one leg powering the water heater, another leg powering the washing machine, and the third running the lights and microwaveā¦we thrived. The SI alternator was from a Toronado Oldsmobile. The engine was a Twin cylinder aircooled Lambardini diesel. This was running in 2003. I was broke, no job, off grid because we could not pay the $1000 electric bill. I have been there.
Steve,
I just hope I read and listen. I have to investigate Mattās battery idea. I am writing this listening to the EU3000i running under the deck by the basement door. Sounds like the filter screens in the fuel lines are plugging up again. The governor is hunting.
I am not bitter about casting pearls Steve and neither should you. Do you think you would have listened to you when you were young? I try to lead by example, as I have two sons that watch every move I make.
I know its counter intuitive to borrow money, but the Fed is going to inflate the Treasury debt into oblivion. They are going to destroy the banks. So if you borrow now, and pay back with inflated currency BEFORE the switch to ledger based currency, the bank ends up holding the bag, not you. It seems immoral to me, but so does giving Steve Mnuchin 500billion dollars to dispurse with no oversight.
The point is to realize that no one is truly off grid, unless you count these nut cases running around in loin clothes pretending to eat tree bark like Euell Gibbons. What matters to us is the degree of dependence we have on the grid. I think people all over are feeling this, judging by how I cannot buy .223 rounds. I would say people are worried about how much their neighbours are depending on the grid.
All the off grid stuff I have going here is great, in that it bought me a bunch of timeā¦Covid helps too. So nowā¦what do we do with the time Steve?
I think if you find yourself a pasquali that motor will bolt on and make a nice little tractor. I know they use a wide range of them. My pasquali has about 30hp but they definitely used much smaller motors too.
That is sweet. I you did thrive. I thought you were specing it out for him. I am more worried about getting him by this winter, and fuel costs are time or money, so the more efficient the better.
Which is probably true. I was looking at it from the perspective of eeking 6 months out of them of fairly light use, and saving up for something better in the meantime.
I think it is cheaper long term to get the LiFeP batteries and call it a day for 10+ years.
From what I can figure out is they are 896 watt hours. Always figure out the watt hours. Simply multiply the nominal voltage against the amp hours. Then divide by the price. Im sure shipping wont be cheap as shipping batteries is very expensive. But even the cost they show is not very good. Those are 36 cents pr watt. Those cells I showed are only 8 cents pr watt and they are like new. As long as you dont hard cycle them they will last just as long as Lifepo 4 you just got to build it larger so you dont pull the bank down.
These cells Im running now Ive been hard cycling everyday since last June (I think) and now its getting cold and they show zero degradation.
Nothing wrong with Lipo just got to know what you are doing. Easy to learn. Lipo cells can last just as long as LifePo4 its all about how you cycle them. If you never cycle them they can last a long time. For what you can get them for you can build a huge bank for less than LifePo4 new and if you build it right they will last just as long. If you build large enough to where you are recharging before dropping bellow the nominal voltage you are not really cycling the cells.
These pack cells are safer that most other lipoās as well as they bloat out if they fail so they wont short and catch fire. But still should be use with caution. I will eventually build this much larger in an outside heated unit.
Yeah deals like that are what you want to look for dont buy new there are plenty deals out there used and they are generally fully tested and are beyond 80% capacity. Just use reputable re sellers like Battery Hook Up and others. But you should also test them your self and order extra in case you find bad ones. It is worth your efforts to build your own system.
How trustworthy is Alibaba especially with out current political issues with China? I ordered a washing machine control board from a Chinese Website last year. Half the price and very elaborate looking site. Money down the tubes. No product, no way to contact. No recourse. Then had to worry that they had our debit card info for months. Later found out that there are a lot of these scam sites.
Alibaba is more like ebay and has a payment system like PayPal so you have some protection. I have used it for some small things under $100 total over maybe 5 orders with no trouble. That said make sure you know the delivery and import rules for any batteries you order they can require some special consideration with shipping I forgot which ones are considered explosive. But there was one technology I looked at that a friend of mine who is a retired trucker informed me I couldnāt transport across state lines with an operator licence because of the risk involved with the volume I was looking at for off grid.
The thing with China is fraud is a massive issue if you are cought the penalty is crazy so alibaba tends to be very safe from what i have read.
You can be caught. . . .be had on any Internet non-manufacturers purchase.
I am still hurting $1100.+ usd on a used ESAB TIG welder I E-bay won on.
72 pounds and the shop owed it boxed it and shipped it UPS. That unit got from waist high dropped many, many times. The three layer corrugated box when received looked like a well used brown medicine ball.
Sign and receive something? Refuse? And send back, and try and get a Pay-Pal refund?
I signed. The metals housing corners were all crushed rounded. One of the internal transformer magnet cores were shattered. NFG. Powers up. No welding arc.
UPS claim? āImproperly boxed by the shipperā. Pay-Pal E-Bay claim? Go thru UPS. Record a satisfaction rating.
I did later not bid; but E-Bay Buy-Now, on five deferent BIG permanent magnet used motor-generators. Redi-LIneās. 2 1600 watters. 3 800 watters. SPECIFIED to the seller(S) just how to multi-layer corrugated box these up WITH side cut in hand lifting pockets. Offered them a person-to-person $50 cash bonus if boxed shipped USPS the way Iād specified. AND received not shipping damaged the way, and recieved just as they had pictured them. 4 out of 5 did get their $50 bonusās mailed to them. The fifth one, a cabinet shop person, had to get cute and make up a sawn board coffin box to ship it in. Received that USPS filament shipping tape overstraped to hold the four with grain split box pieces together. And with the motor-generator damage!
I just bought a new production vehicle system scanner from an auto parts store. for retail price. Amazon? I checked the reviews. All brands had many one-star 5-13% negative reviews with those complaining that they bought new, did not receive new, but re-boxed returns. Some they could not even register with the manufactures for warrantee and updates. Used. Already registered with the first buyers.
Pay more; to get more.
Just be sure you do get more.
Face to face can insure this.
My big heavy Trace inverter I E-bay bid bought I drove 350 miles to person-to-person pick up.
S.U.
This was $79 delivered from AliExpress. 100watt monocrystalline. I have received 9 of these that were made in Canada, and this one was made in China.
Two were received broken. One was replaced by the company in two days. The other was scratched and they gave me a credit for my next one.
Overall, I am extremely pleased.
I thought you were specing it out for him. I am more worried about getting him by this winter, and fuel costs are time or money, so the more efficient the better.