Properties of a good wood gasifier

Sorry for your sleep deprovision.

The cheramic wool was both behind the nozzlesand around the actual gasifier.

Exactly. 4 vertical 4x4" finned pipes were both used as a dropbox for ash and air preheat. It was werry effective.

Ha, mufler. This gasifier was the muffler officialy :wink: l threw the original out and put a gasifier in its place. Then installed a pipe runing trugh the actual gasifier, comeing out trugh the back as a tailpipe. This had nothing to do with the gasifier and was completely separated.

5 Likes

Hey TomH,
This Krisitjan explaining started at post #60. Mouse/scroll wheel back up watching the RH side number block.
He was refuting that his hard ran system would have a melting problem at his nozzles. But instead have plate steel jacketing heat failure.
His diagram shows that he made this double walled sides and top. In between these wall he drew the air to attempt to keep his outer wall cooler.
Then in the video he shows WHY the need for contact cooling and even insulating because of his in-the-trunk stuffing.
I figure air-pre-heat was not his priority. Pure charcoal systems do not benefit from it.

Audio works much better for us old half hear loss guys with a good set of in the ear buds; or a good set of over the ear head-phones. The you can isolate out all of the other outside noise makers - KIDS! (wife) and jack up the volume. Computer speakers suck.
Steve Unruh

5 Likes

And Now because Kristijan was forced to think inside a very small BOX due to his circumstances, he said here; or on another topic, that he learned things he would not otherwise tried as “not typical”.
And he became another independent Proof-point of my wood gasification Heat premise for calculating power.

And I will say this again and again. WayneK’s; Kristijan’s; Koen V.L.'s; and now Joni’s. Successes are as much because they have put in the wide range of using operating hours to make their systems sing.
Ain’t no magic system jiggering that can substitute for this kind of experiences.
Superior gardeners are said to have a Green-Thumb. Superior cooks said to have had a great Mother, Grandmother behind them.
I say bullshit. They became superior because they put in the hundreds of hours to become good. Just like a superior metals welder.
And there is a Brotherhood-of-the-Blackhand of Gasification. You earn your way in.
Operating Useing: blackening those hands.
S.U.

8 Likes

Success makes you smile , failures makes you learn :slightly_smiling_face:

18 Likes

A few days ago, we talked to Kristjan about the composition of wood and the course of the oxidation and reduction reaction. According to the molar composition of wood 6% H … 44% O … 50% C … this is supposed to mean 3xH2 … 2.75xO … 4.17xC, if we look at the oxidation process and the reductions eventually give 2.75xCO and 1.42xCH4 and 0.32xH remains, which means that if oxidation takes place first, some oxygen must be added, which in turn forms an excess of water in the process. Kristjan is very right when he says that charcoal should be added or steam should be discharged

7 Likes

Pipe I had as single nozzle for gasifier . As a fix for leak that caused all gas to burn in gasifier .
Fixing that caused many more leaks , results of which I am yet to experience . What , were and how much .

1 Like

Hello Mr. Steve, thank you for your effort and writing. I am one ordinary average person trying to understand the basic processes in wood conversions so that I can then design and operate a gasifier well. I’m a little ashamed if someone addresses me with “sir”, because I’m not worth it

2 Likes

Ha! Ha! You, Sir are far from average.
You have shown us your whole house hydronic system. Fueled by your own made wood chips.
And average person just turns up their thermostat and sends off more money each month to the actual energy suppler. Not become their own energy supplier.
S.U.

8 Likes

I want to go back to post 15 where Matt talks about pellet fuel. I am wondering why pellets would be a better fuel than charcoal and unless you were buying them they would not be less work to make than fuel sized charcoal. Are the pellets three times more energy dense than Charcoal? Then Matt stated that pellets will not work in a traditional down draft gasifier. What is the best gasifier design for pellet fuel?

Anyway I have looked at a lot of pellet making video. This is the one I think I could most easily duplicate. I like the idea that the grate turns instead of the rollers and that the rollers can be down pressured.

2 Likes

Dear friends, we are here because we share similar views and pleasant company. Personally, I can say that since reading this forum and what I have tried myself, I understand things differently than before. Theoretically, an ideal gasifier would change wood from a solid form to a gaseous one without the addition of additional air, or without additional energy (exothermic reaction = endothermic reaction). However, the reality is different, the high temperature energy needed to run the process drops sharply or escapes into the environment, so we have a lot of useless low temperature energy in the chemical process. My goal is to design a gasifier that will concentrate heat in a well-insulated center.

6 Likes

Global Wood Pellet Market share is set to cross USD 19 billion by 2025 . I would like more money . More then 19 Billion and that is easy if we knew what we were doing and some one else was not saying that they own the process that has not been used and does not have a market .

Steve,
I was not aware of a suggested limit on how much we should contribute to a topic?

2 Likes

Yup , It gave me the over 20 %. One time, I kept typing and giving my input. Yey I had things to say to give answers to members questions. Then I let others give their input in on the topic. It is a good thing I have never seen that on my own topic thread. Lol
Bob

3 Likes

Put a value to what you are worth pr hour. Then go make fuel ready to run calculate your worth into that process. A 40 lb bag of pellets cost $4 to $5.5 this is 320,000 BTU pr bag. Thats a lot of energy for 5 bucks.

Char pellets should be around 9600 BTU pr lb. If you have a device to convert those pellets to charcoal and produce a means of primary heat in that process then you have a big win.

Pellet fuel energy density “”" by volume""" <<< key word there. it roughly three times as energy dense as chip fuel. Keep in mind chip fuel is going vary by species. I am comparing to cedar as this is the most common fuel we could get in my local to me area.

The issues with pellet fuel gasification is the combustion gases migrating into the hopper in a traditional down draft gasifier. If shut down the pellets will saturate with moisture and turn to mush. I accidently developed technology that prevents this. Yes this is my technology , it is mine and went through the sacrifices to develop it. It is my technology and Im not giving it away for free. Go spend your life savings, give up your house and develop your own technology. This is mine and I need to protect it. I did not get government hand outs, I dont have thirty employees like a competitor I have, oh no, I self funded 100% and I am the sole engineer here, nothing has ever been outsourced. Ive done what my larger counter part has done single handedly. Enough on that I could go on. However my view on direct raw fuel gasification has drastically changed since my earlier post here. As I have found that not even charcoal can be exempt from tar. Once this was revealed to me I immediately dropped my technology from market with 10 years of development and hundreds of thousands dollars backing it. That was not an easy thing do. Ive also found charcoal being no more difficult to produce than other fuels as the initial processing is much less; its more like creating firewood. Regardless if you burn it to produce charcoal or run a piece of equipment to produce fuels for raw fuel gasification, those processes require energy input. That chipper chunker also uses energy to run. Sure reducing fuel to charcoal is more energy used to create the fuel. So what!! If your time involved is less its worth the trade off and if you are not wasting that heat energy than you are not wasting it. In that scenario you are coming out way ahead.

Charcoal systems are simpler, charcoal runs way more stable, you can scrub this gas clean as NG, with a good water drip the gas is more powerful than direct raw fuel gasification, Plus that water drip is adding back energy for basically free. Just the H2 production from 1 liter of water is 15,000 btu, this is not factoring the Oxygen shift to Carbon = CO. I dont know how exactly to factor that as the charcoal is part of that equation. CHP systems are more viable with charcoal systems as you can get the heat in the charcoaling process for primary heat around the clock. Not the case with direct system generally the engine has to be running for the opportunity to reclaim that heat. Who wants to be running a system around the clock for both heat and Power. Not me, no way.

Im eating a lot of crow on some of these post;; I was very naïve ignorant, a bit arrogant and 100% hard headed. I am glad I have taken the path I had to take to get where I am today. It has not been an easy road getting here, not one bit of it. For 10 years this has been a struggle with hardship, especially the last 5 years in this market. I would not have learned the things I did trying to control and overcome the physics of a raw fuel gasifier plant. I am a pioneer there and am very proud of that. Programming in C logic was the last thing I ever thought I would ever be able to do. I had two choices when I want to tech school. One choice was programing and the other was mechanical engineering. Me? Program? no way that is way over my head!! and off to engineering school I went. I can now write very complex programing and am grateful to those that helped me along in that learning process. I love programing.

What is the properties of a good wood gasifier system? Well if your looking for both heat and power. I would be one that can produce primary heat, that can make fuel for itself and provide clean gas for power generation without fouling the engine. It would run reliably, and be simplistic. It would be viable and practical to use and not a chore to use.

That is my vision now and what I just described is the VersiFire Power Stove. Indeed it does run on pellets, unfortunately the technology that makes this system possible can only run on a fuel like this. Other small dense fuel may work but in my development process we need to use something that is standard. Pellets fit the bill. We also have a pellet mill manufacturer we are working with. They will be our distro in Mexico, while we will become the distributor here in the US for their mills. We already make the M-1 Series and with innovative thinking you can turn just about anything into charcoal to run it. The way I see it, fuel that you can not process for raw fuel gasification is far more wasteful than the charcoaling process.

Those that maybe interested here is a link the VersiFire. I will launch manufacturing on prototypes this March and hope to conclude initial testing by May. June will take reservations for a short production run over the summer. These will be Beta units and we will test this platform in the field for probably a year. We will need investors to achieve all the certs we will need for this device and if all goes well we will be ready for 2023 model year production. :fire:

https://www.thriveoffgrid.net/versifire

3 Likes

What?Huh? As always you are running about four levels above my pay grade but I do pick up bits and pieces as I go along and always enjoy your obvious enthusiasm for the things you are working on. You are what America was. Focused on quality and innovation. I’m China. Just taking what others have done and pretending I actually did something more than stick some parts together. God, please tell me how we can get back to that place in time where people like you drove an economy. You have every right to profit from your efforts. Me, and a lot of others here are mere dabblers. You are doing your life’s work. I never built someone else’s house for free and always tried to make as much profit as I fairly could. I would expect the same from you. Keep up the good work. I want to talk about some of the charcoal and pellet issues you addressed but I’ll do it in my Huh thread.

4 Likes

That’s because your one of the good guys Steve, you don’t ramble on, filling up the forum with useless verbage. Good on you. :smile:
Rindert

2 Likes

Rindert,
Perhaps it’s nice having people like me in the mix, but I enjoy some of the “ramble,” especially from “smarty pants” Steve. Ha! Ha!

4 Likes

past quote Bobmac and referring quote to Bobmac
Hi Jan, there are a few ways to do it. If your wood is above 18% moisture content I will pore the charcoal on top of my feed bag of wood. Mix it 1/2 bag of wood to 1/4 charcoal. 3/4 of a bag is all I want to lift into the hopper. I have also put wood in the hopper after light it and put charcoal in the center of the wood about the same ratio. Every gasifer is different. Kristijan will probably give you his mix ratio.
Just play with it. My charcoal is popcorn size and larger. I have used the charcoal out of my gasifer after screening the ash out of it. The smaller charcoal will fall right down in between the wood pieces. It also gets rid of the sticky tar.
I should have posted it on your thread soory. I look at this way, the gasifer made all of this good charcoal why throw it away. Just use It for more power it makes Hydrogen when it has moisture in, and it will absorb tar vapors and uses it to make more power. It is a win win.
Bob
small and dry wood chunks and mix with some walnut and hazelnut size charcoal, about third or a half by volume.
This fuel is what Bob calls “rocket fuel”. It is a abuse resistant fuel. Resistant to overdrawing, moist wood, makes good quality gas over a small reaction area and a lot of it! It will make tar free gas even without much of a restriction.

3 Likes

These days I occasionally dealt with the regulation of the voltage on the generator, I used a three-phase transformer, where I get 28 V with a rectifier at a generator voltage of 3x400V. The regulation is taken care of by the regulator from the car alternator, to which I have to amplify the output with a mosfet transistor


7 Likes

I don’t hear anyone lately talking about grate shakers anymore. Who still uses them and how often? What about stationary vs on the road gasifiers?

2 Likes