Seeking Information on Gasifier Sizes, Uses, and Costs

Hello Dave & Brian,

Thank you for your response! I will discuss it with my partner, as he has his own logic when it comes to cost control. Personally, I think adding shipping costs makes it unfeasible; it might be better to build one ourselves since we have metal cutting machines and a welding factory with the necessary skills. What we’re lacking is a stable system design, which depends on our intended use. I believe it’s best to first create a prototype, build a functional system, and then make adjustments based on experience (by the way, it’s hard for me to choose since each design has its pros and cons, but I might aim for a design that avoids bridging and material jamming). However, my partner has construction experience, and he seems more interested in improving the system (though he hasn’t said this explicitly, it’s more through his actions).

Attached is a photo of a gasifier similar to the one he designed: an upward-opening, vertical cylindrical structure. As far as I know, it’s not a double-cylinder system, and it handles 20 kg of wood chips per hour. The structure is very simple. I haven’t actually operated it, but other information suggests it generates a lot of tar, and the cyclone dust collector overheats, glowing red during operation, with large amounts of carbon dust accumulating and burning (I even think this somehow achieves the most important part of a gasifier, which is the accumulation of carbon layers). So, the areas he wants to improve are: 1. Solving bridging, 2. Solving tar buildup, 3. Solving overheating of the cyclone dust collection area, 4. Automating everything.

Personally, I’m inclined to switch to a different furnace system, such as GEK or Imbert, but with no experience, I can’t guarantee that it will solve the above problems. If no new issues arise, that would be a blessing.

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Hi Alice, to me this drawing looks more like a continous operating oven for making charcoal? Is the produced gas cooled and circulating back to the hot zone?

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Hello Göran Kindervall,

From what I know, the gas produced by this system first passes through a cyclone dust collector, then through a condensation system, and finally enters the flare where it is ignited. I also agree with your point that this is more like a carbonization furnace. Unfortunately, for various reasons (such as absurd media or politicians motivated by personal interests), most of the people with resources and power here believe that as long as gas is produced and can be ignited, it’s considered a gasifier. To me, gasification is the art of combustion, but to them, it’s a propaganda tool, and they don’t care much about how it works or the risks involved. This makes my job very difficult.

I suggested that they make design modifications in the direction of DriZzleR (upstream, continuous feeding, which fully meets their needs), but they think the system operates too slowly (of course, the efficiency of gasification can’t compare to carbonization, these two are completely incomparable, who would count charcoal output as part of gasification products??), and the syngas isn’t clean. (On a side note, they tend to measure success by fuel consumption or the pretty blue flame, possibly because their underdeveloped minds can’t comprehend what kW represents.)

I apologize for all my complaints. The partners’ demands are overwhelming, and it’s causing a lot of pressure (who made them think that gasification is magic??). I might start by drawing some design diagrams. I believe the experienced people here can provide great suggestions, at least better than me, someone who can only talk theory at this point.

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Not one of the brainiac’s here but the design in the drawing doesn’t make much sense to me. If those are pipes feeding what appears to be a cooler then it’s a closed loop and where ever the gas is being produced it doesn’t appear to be piped anywhere. Perhaps I"m missing something. Also I have thought about Drizzler’s at times. I can’t see them as being large scale gas producers. Everybody would like a continuous feed system so that periodic monitoring would become unnecessary and the Drizzler does overcome the problem of fuel bridging but if the fuel feed is not kept low then it overwhelms the reaction and the noted tar is the result. still not clear on what the desired end result of the build is. Personal power production? Manufactured for retail?

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O.K. AliceY. based on your very frank current humans situation then I will suggest an area for you to look into.

Rotary driven kilns. These are used for heat sterilizing contaminated soils.
The same types of systems are used for mass materials mixing.
The same types of systems are used for crushed aggregate washing.
The same type of systems are used even for grinding rock bases into powders.

Only since your partner developers want to go big; materials mass gobbling; and automated systems.
The rotary drum is either perimeter chain driven. Or perimeter gear band driven.
With internal paddles nothing inside will bridge.
Instead of relying on weak drawn in air down through a lay in place fuel stack; you large blower force feed the needed system air. Instead of center air-in go perimeter air bleed in to burn the char for the systems heat.
Animated illustration:

Yep. Make a particulate dirty output. Look at the downstream separations, cleaning.
Throw this at them. They ask for pie-in-the-sky then give them what they want. Expensive, big, complicated shit handling system.

Now. A more practical approach.
Search up the India Institute of Science Combustion Gasification Propulsion Lab works.
IISc CGPL
You may have to one time pay a membership to access anymore.
They have some simple developed systems from small manual to larger automated.
They like to multi-stage refrigerate condense clean their gasses outputs.
And lowest system auger out 7-9% equivalent of input fuel stock mass as the lower system ash-char mass made. The char separated as a value added product.

Regards
Steve Unruh

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Thank you, Steve Unruh! This is a great idea! The massive metal monster is perfect for promotion, and I think my partner will love this idea.

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Im build a miniture one of these . Same design i see in the OSB mills

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Hello, Craig. Did you say you built a mini version of a rotary driven kiln? In your backyard? Wow, that’s amazing! Does it really work? This sounds really challenging, way beyond the DIY level, right?! (I admit I’m not very experienced, I know there are many incredible people on this forum who have created things in their backyard that are better than what’s in a lab!)That’ s fantastic!

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Ouch. I feel like I put in a dime and got quarter results.

Let me clarify my own personal wood-for-power position.
As soon as augers, conveyors, mini-electronic processors are added to the the system I lose interest.
Because over the course of 50+ years in the working professional world, I experienced and saw time and time again once a system “lost” direct touch manual control, even if just a back-up then sooner versus later those ohh-Wow’ser systems were stopping. Not producing. Doing nothing. Waiting for a specialized Technologist to come and I’s and O’s sort it out. Or system down, not producing; waiting for a one-of-a-kind gear drive motor; motor power supply; relay; whatever; to be sourced and shipped in. And then once replaced the system had to be re-trained calibrated for the new replacement part.

The GEK’s are the perfect example.
I was a GEK supporter and even kit buyer back in the GEK I and GEK II beginning days.
I then searched out pre-existing GEK owners, got invited to operate thiers before I would welded up my first-of-its-kind stainless steel kit.
O.K., small. Really, really small.
O.K., horribly narrow stand up pipe legs . . . the least bump and they would fall over.
O.K. had some operating functional improvement changes that should be made like jacketing with a single master air-in, of the five individual air-in ports no longer requiring them to all be individually capped for shutting down.
Feed back from many, and these changes were made on the improved GEK III’s. Air jacket added. Wide spaced fin type “rocket legs” then.

But soon due to brainiac demands the III’s were changed to a no-more central settling down feed fuel hopper; but to a side feeding auger.
For crushed nuts shells and fruit pits. For manufactured wood and other materials very uniform sized fuel pellets.
NO LONGER CAPABLE OF SITE GROWN AND CUT UP RAW WOOD CHUNKS
I directly complained that the true Rural living who on their own properties growing tree and brush were being left behind. I was told that “Pepper’s” weren’t the people who were an interest to the Berkley California developers. Niether were the drive-on-wood folks.
The APL/GEK took a hard dive then into full electronics automation of all of the GEK’s operating functions. The GEK IV’s. And the GEK IV’s soon evolved into the Power Pallets.

More than once here on the DOW some poor Power Pallet buyer-owner has cried out for someone to source them a replacement failed APL proprietary electronic control board.

Ha! I move on to Victory Gasworks. Ben Peterson. My involvement was the insistence for using stainless steel. For all system to have manual override back up capabilties.

I do not apologize for my mid-20th Century attitudes. I was the polysilicon wafer disc edge grinder who hand ground the first 300 mm production proof prototypes on an old 1960’s made-in-california only 75-150 mm grinder bench that got our 1 billon dollar Fab plant approved for the additional 2 billion dollars to be able to 21st Century upgrade. Only three of eight Fab plants worldwide qualified. Working there for 7 years time and time again each department had to set aside failed tweekie robotics and push customers orders through each value-added steps; and then hands pushed roller carts deliverer to the next process. The optical visual tracking; then later magnetic tape following robotic delivery carts kept crashing destroying orders.

Same things I saw on milk cow dairies beginning working at 14 years old.
Same thing I saw in medium sized wood products mills later. In plywood mills an eight man manual lay-up table could outproduce a three man 150 foot long raised moving bed o lay-up machine. When you factored in the four hours shut down needing two-man cleaning up and resetting time.

I will make no apologies for my manual, humans celebrating insistent ways.
I can make blue flare gas any time I would wish using bulk raw wood:


Steve Unruh

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Steve, I feel ya. I have the same concept on how automobiles have evolved into complicated problems waiting to happen and expensive to fix … with all the sensors… especially tire pressure sensors??? come on… it’s driving people into laziness and idiocy… as the average driver hasn’t a clue on maintenance anymore… and self parking… be real… in my day… if you couldn’t parallel park you shouldn’t drive… self driving cars?? and most people forgot how to use turn signals!! what have we become?.. all this has driven the price of vehicles to the cost of owning a home anymore… I’ll keep my 2001 and 2003 vehicles going until I can’t get parts or until I can’t drive anymore…

Rant done!!

Dennis

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Hi Alice,
Still looking forward to know in what country in asia you are.
In the library section, here on the forum, there are many detailed books available, explaining the different types of combustion / gasification.

The drawing you posted earlier more depicts a rudimental heat exchanger ( kinda steam / liquid system) than a gasifier.

I understand your quest to find a solution. The style you put forwards leans towards a Fema type ( famous tar maker )

In a gasifier the char , glowing, is actually mostly consumed in the reduction process ( converting tar/steam/smoke/Co2… into syngas ( woodgas/producergas)
Only a tiny % will pass thru with the residu ashes.

Woodchips, ( wood is wood) , sufficiently dried and sized can produce between 3.8 and 4.4 KwH heat energy per Kg woodchips. ( complete combustion )

It is possible to calculate the amount of gas that you can collect, based on type of gasifier and fuel type.
Some books in the library can give you a comprehensive overview.

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koen, maybee alice lives in north corea or china and cannot say this because she has critizited the government in her posts…
my son initially thought this topic was a fun account from jan ola for bringing a bit fresh wind in the forum with a gasifier girl…

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