Technology Supplantation

Hi ALL,
I am expanding on some ideas I was pointing out on the Premium side of the DOW.
Those not knowing the Premium side we members insist on only talking about real now applied Technology’s focused on the actual user, using right now. Usually about 30-50% DOW activity is there.

Supplantation I am using as a newer produced Technology gradually replacing the previous in-use developed Tech.
Think digital audio/visual as now gradually replacing hard media in disc drives. Disc drives optical/magnetic previously supplanting tape storage. Tape storage having supplanted vinyl and pre-vinyl (baklite?) and wire audio; and celluloid video recordings.
This change over transition always takes time in years. The too edgy of the new: failing. Rejected. The best of the old previous still used until completely worn out. ONLY then replaced with the best use-proven newer Tech.

So on the Premium side I was saying that the early 1990’s to mid 1990’s vehicle engines Tech’s was the high point of best vehicles to woodgas convert. That the late 90’s and certainly now into the 2000’s vehicle engine and transmission production Tech’s were probably not going to be woodgas feasible for too many reasons.
That there was probably going to have to be a big jump from using 90’s, pre-90’s vehicles until down the road EV’s were “ubiquitous” (existing, or seeming to exist everywhere). Then the best in-use proven of those stationary woodgas home recharged.
Read Ray Menke and Pelletpower JoepK. here on the DOW for this direction.

We as functioning societies cannot afford to replace out our whole vehicles in-use at a rate greater than ~5% of the total in-use annually.
Forcing changes faster will lead to social-financial bankruptcies.

Read this article I had put up showing just how fuel specific the newest production engine system were. NOT going to adapt over to alternative fuel at all DIY.

Now especially scroll to that articles ending comment section.
The gamut of beliefs systems here expressed.
Forcing rapid change over to full top-down EV systems. We must. You must.
To appreciative that some company was willing to invest into keeping the gasoline use, still improving; and all regulations demanded compliant.

My belief is Tech change-overs should be pulled along by our own individual pocket book selections. And I demand selections. And the ability to make my own.
Steve Unruh

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Who lot of opinions in the comment section from the armchair engineers :joy: “ice is dying, why spend the money on this old tech!” “Why build a diesel when a gasser gets the same milage!” “The supercharger of course makes more power!” Tisk tisk, opinions are like buttholes, everyone’s got one. Kudos to Mazda trying to sustain dino juice cars on the road when evs are all the rage. Kudos to hybridizing a diesel engine action to gasoline function. Kudos to straight up ingenuity for a new fuel system that hasn’t been proven more then a theory till this point, much the same as we do here with wood and charcoal. Iv been reading about gasification for years and I’m finally doing it, yet yesterday my brother from Wisconsin was over and I spent 3 hours walking him through the basics and he still doesn’t believe it’s possible. He thinks I’m a nutcase. Some people need to see to believe? I’m sure major auto manufacturers will be scrambling when this technology becomes proven and the die hard anti ev guys buy the crap out of it, probably utilizing a local tax break for less fossil fuels used or something of that nature. My question, as tech giants like Mazda are squaring up for battle for sales and moving gasoline technology further forward then has ever been known, what can we as woodgassers take away from this? The technology of the 90’s is coming to shine on simplicity of operation ( timing control, fuel delivery dial back capabilities, power to weight ratio, user serviceability) how can we as a community further this? My little simple redneck brain can tinker ideas such as a custom made intake manifold to utilize the Chrysler systems of injection and throttle body goods adaptable to any other v series of engine of yesteryear. In driven application this comes to mind but not undoable for a stationary setup either. Or delve forward into newer platforms yet, with stand alone computer programable goods like the race cars of today are doing. That is tech I have yet to learn but it’s out there to build a engine control module that could be difinitivly purpose build for gassification. Think the high horsepower Chevy LS platform, known dino tuned trucks still naturally aspirated touching into 500hp numbers with ease. The engine is proven to survive daily drivability with twin turbos sustaining 900hp street tune, take it to the track on Friday night and load the hot tune at 1400hp and run a 8 second quarter mile! The engine is plenty strong, the injection system is multi point not unlike the dodge v8s, full computer timing control and totally on hand tunable by the end user. This isn’t an ad for the ls platform ( I may be a fan of it by this is just an example) we could as an idea have a Dakota or v10 taken to a dino and have numbers pushed to see what it can do. My personal plan in time for my truck is the Edelbrock self learning tunable multi port injection system installed to my old school small block Chevy, and see how far I can push it on wood. Never know it may make it to a Dyno someday! Enough of my ramblings, who’s next?

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Diesel: The Diesel was a diesel-powered version of the 2LT trim level of the Cruze, available for 2014 and 2015 only. It added unique seventeen-inch aluminum-alloy wheels, a six-speed automatic transmission, remote start, and a 2.0L Turbocharged Inline Four-Cylinder (I4) diesel engine to the 2LT trim level. Options were identical to that of the 2LT trim level, though the RS Package was not available on the Diesel.

Citroën
The DS
1955 saw the introduction of the DS, the first full usage of Citroën’s hydropneumatic self-levelling suspension system, tested on the rear suspension of the Traction in 1954. The DS was also the first production car with modern disc brakes. A single high-pressure hydraulic system was used to actuate the power steering, the suspension and brakes; the brakes were fully powered, not power assisted, as pedal force was not a component of braking power. The gearshift, (semi-automatic transmission) was also powered by the hydraulic system through a control valve, with actuating pistons in the gearbox cover to shift the gears in the transmission, and the clutch was operated automatically by the system, so there was no clutch pedal. From 1957 the ID19 model offered a simplified hydraulic system, with manual steering and conventional manual gearshift, and a significant price reduction. From 1968, with revised front end style, the DS also introduced auxiliary driving lights, that moved direction-ally with the steering, improving visibility at night. Production from 1956 to 1975 totalled almost 1.5 million cars. The streamlined car was remarkable for its era and had a remarkable sounding name – in French, DS is pronounced [de.ɛs], which sounds the same as déesse, which means Goddess.[21] It placed third in the 1999 Car of the Century competition.

Hello Marcus,
Yes I can see that I, you, a few other could dial back a 21st century features loaded down engine system.
Just like stripping back down layered tacked on 1980’s emissions systems.
I did that many times.

The newer variable cam system could be pin locked to be just like before.
Variable oil pump system like in the Toyota lock fixed.
Metal tube intakes made up with then actual cable throttle body retrofitted.
Heck even retrofitted back to an actual easy throttle body injection.
Onto each engine active system then fixed just like previous.
Then just using the cam and crank sensors; ECT, Baro, MAP into a programable aftermarket ECU.

Still two stymie’s:

  1. the electronically controlled specific 6, 8, and 10 speed auto trannys. I think maybe I could rowed flip switch a four speed. Be rough shifting though. These moderns do not like bang-shifts. Some four speed do have aftermarket controllers now too. Damn few though.
  2. and guys in emissions inspected areas.

We now Washington State have our over 20 years exemption.
Used to be a fixed 1982. That was the berries getting old stuff 83-95 through inspections. With most of the of the system parts NLA.
Many areas U.S. and overseas still stuck with an early 80’s emissions exemption date.

The noose has gotten pretty tight.
S.U.

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Ooops.
I just looked up and am reminded as of Jan 1, 2020 we no longer have any vehicle emissions testing in Washington State.
38 years; over half my lifetime; that was the Dragon to fight. And refight. Refight.
S.U.

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For my earlier example of the ls, adapter kits are available for many popular five and six speed manual swaps. Ford and dodge kits are available as well for there popular engines and the technology for automatics is coming out fast for end user control as well. I’m not a fan of them but numbers don’t lie! When a 2000lb ft torque Cummins truck is running the strip at 6seconds with a 48re? It can be done! Beyond my technical skills though. Reverse engineering of the new school high flow engines back to user control is the ticket on the race tracks right now. If someone where to delve into it with financial backing I’d make a bet there would be a ten second woodgasser :grin: but most of here are the homebrew type that make do with what we have, I don’t think many could justify a 30-40 thousand dollar build. If we could the woodgas tech would be clipping right along with the best of them. Also lead to heavy exposure to the outside world of our way around fuel taxes and crippling fuel prices… Catch 22. Almost needs to be done in secret. Your idea with the hidden within the average commuter car truly is the way of the future I think. Always flying low under the radar. Making the wifey on board with said project…well iv always wanted a fire breathing nova wagon. 15% window tint in the rear, seating for six and groceries with a miniaturized gassifier in the back? See nothing hear nothing. Concealment like a pistol, at the ready and on standby when she drives, weekend cruise right pass the fuel depot. Sounds like my kind of rig, with exhaust cutouts for solo driving of course :+1:

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Henry your info on the modern small diesels is actually a good illustration of Technology Supplantation.
These far upped the game from mere a few thousand injector delivered PSI to 20,000-29,000 psi. 1600-2000 bars of fuel pressure. The old ones could under the skin inject you. The newer ones will just slice cut you apart. And then for sure high speed electronically controlled. Full PCMs. Full sensors suites feed back. You needing dedicated scanners and service info then.
Look here for the more wider applied out engines:

The true moderns start at their R425 DOHC → A428 DOHC. Installed in the Jeep U.S.A. production vehicles.
Their larger A630 DOHC V-6’s used in the larger Jeeps and Dodge pickups.
All of these are relatively light duty use diesel engines. Pushed hard towing they fail.
Another engine type evolved needing precise spec grade fuel. NOT happy at all eating alternatives fuels.

There was a Techtronic’s Engineers family I went to school with who was in love with the ID and DS Citroens. He got these out of a Salt Lake City taxicab company.
So ~12 to 18 y.o. I rode in these. Even helped wrench a few.
Yes. Amazing capabilities. But a gosh darn hard to service vehicles.
I evolved to driving cheap well used, near free Rambler Americans. Much, much easier to work on. And much, much cheaper to maintain running. With the same mileage. And better interior cargo spaces.

The Citroen DS’s, ID’s fall into the same category as the Ford Model T; Volkswagen Beatle; BLMC Mini; Volvo 242/245; Checker cars . . . .people say they want a stone simple never change, forever car. But not enough people to keep the models alive.

Then changing emissions requirements. C.A.F.E. fuel standards (no company could comply with only one model). Then bumper standards. Later crash and rollover standards. THESE all forcing changing.
So cannot blame just fickled consumers.
Many design changes are forced from the Top-Down, always meddling. Always moving the carrots on-a-stick farther forwards.
S.U.
Edit: from the Diesel-gate emissions reported Opps-caught incident read this:

They were not the first cheaters by far.

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You mean like this 9,000$ annoying thing!?


Proprietary dealer info, with basic code readout. “Ya there’s a problem, I can’t tell you what it is or how to fix it or what the symptoms are, but the confuser says there is definitely a problem” arrrgggggg! Sometimes more useful to beat your head on a wall then try to unstand this crap. “Limited access” is the best I can describe it, even with monthly online updates to the system. When diesels went to common rail high pressure systems, diagnostics have become much much harder for the average tech that hasn’t taken dealer certified instructional classes

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Part of a painting showing my Mother , Father and his car .

The car would sink when you turned engine off and rise up when it was running .

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Cruze Diesel’s turbocharged 2.0L engine delivers a segment-leading SAE-certified 151 horsepower (113 kW) and 264 lb-ft of torque (358 Nm), but overboost can increase torque to 280 lb-ft (380 Nm) for about 10 seconds of stronger acceleration.
I like this feature of the car .

Buick V6 engine
The supercharged 3800 Series III, found in the Grand Prix GT or GTP (depending on model year), unleashed 260 horsepower. The 3800 and 3800 SC Supercharged engines offered 230 foot-pounds of torque at 4,000 RPM and 380 foot-pounds of torque at 5,200 RPM, respectively.

Just wondering if some one who tried roots type blower to drive on wood was successful in doing it ?

I have seen some push for bio-diesel 100 % I think that is another discussion .

Henry I searched back and three fellows have roots-positive displacement set up for woodgas shown here on the DOW.
All of these were retrofitted onto never were factory boost blown engines. The only one reporting here recently said he lost about 10 mph in top speed capability. He was closed group asking for advises what to try now.

Now on your Buick 3800 factory supercharge idea . . . . you should search out a donor vehicle and try this for sure.
I did work for a combined Buick/Oldsmobile/Saturn/Nissan dealership for 18 months. As the used car Tech I got to choose my uniform - but NOT work so much on these as they went to the dedicated brands Techs. I was to work on everything else.
The factory supercharged 3800 V-6’s I saw shop cycle through had no more problems than the non-super charged V-6’s. Less of the intake coolant leakage problems. But with a few more high mileage front of engine oil leakages. The blowers had separate special lube reservoirs and did not use engine oil. So those had to be check for lube losses separately.

Scroll down for the 1991-95 Series 1 supercharged. Was OBDI controlled. This would be the one to get imho.
Scroll down farther and read on the later Series II, 1996-2003; and Series III 2004-2007 would have been OBDII controlled. Don’t be seduced by a few more horsepower for the added OBDII problems.
Regards
Steve Unruh

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Ah yes, the early 3.1ltr v6 made me a lot of money on flatrate pay for the intake gasket issues!

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Argos 2021 Reports and Pictures
I found a picture that looks like it .
Ron Ohler
ohlerron
7d
Here are some pics of the past day and this morning.

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