Here go
1 Like
Look to the in ground sprinkler systems
2 Likes
Maybe i could use one of them swinging plastic check valves like we use on our truck gasifier intake air shut off and open the plate in the valve with a little less power consuming noid. How bout name for unit, Climate freindly energy saver power system.
2 Likes
Thanks Matt Rider that give me a direction too look in. Good looking type unit too use too.
3 Likes
Impressive threat, unbelieveble. But I think you are right Matt. It is easier to sell cnc machines.
I totally agree about using pellets. I disagree on making them. You need a grinder with the right screen to get the sawdust uniform. Then a dryer and something to mix and ad water if it needs. And then the controls. Measuring moisture is the hardest part. At the end an auger to feed the press the right way, and in between several buffers that the system keeps working. If you manage making pellets, gasifying is a piece of cake with the products you have made so far! Cool!
On the other hand, and that is why I am into sawdust, if you manage to have the gasifier run on sawdust, a very complicated step is cut out. If fresh wood is used, you will still need a dryer. But that is not to complicated,
It was very interest reading the last few days, thanks.
3 Likes
Hi Kevin,
This is how I did this boiler. Starts at #80 and scroll down.
2 Likes
So here is a hammer mill for rock crushing. With something like this, a cheap wood chipper from Harbor Freight would work perfect for pellet milling. Even the mulcher feature could be used here.
Some may say this is adding processes and inefficient. I dont see it that way and I have produced chips. These are not adding processes they are replacing processes with a more efficient process. This is more related to chip fuels Im not interested in chunk fuels at the scale Im working in.
The chipping process generally is going to require large feed stock. The chipping process is not going to give you a 100% yield more like 50% or even less especially when a small chipper is used. This needs be factored in as a loss and you then need to sort through all this and this is a tedious and time consuming process. In order to chip the fuel, generally you are going to want to chip green feed stock. So this will require drying and depending on circumstance it does not always come free form sun bathing.
Creating pellets as an alternative, when you hammer mill the chip fuel size is no longer relevant, so you get all of your yield or at least very close to it. Even mulch can now be an input fuel media. This right here is replacing the sorting out process and making up for those losses of unusable chips.
Now we go to the pellet mill, this is a high pressure process and it involves a ton of heat, the pellets coming out of the unit are generally 300*F if they are not something is wrong. But generally the fuel is low moisture content and ready to run. If not a drying rack can be used effectively. keep in mind pellets are nearly 2-3 times as dense as chips so less space is required pr volume.
In either case someone is required to do the work… I see pellets as much less work there for more viable as fuel especially in a system that is more compact less cost to produce and performs at higher levels across the board. They flow better, easier to auger, no hopper moisture, higher hearth temps, higher water shift, less condensate and char ash is perfect ready made fuel for a charcoal gasifier that could power the process equipment.
This is just how I see it. Remember Ive done all this chip fuel processing, if I dont want to do it. I cant expect my clients to do it.
2 Likes
What you are describing is enough energy has to be put into pellet making, that it quickly dries the pellets. This would be no different / efficient than turning on an electric heater to dry wood chunks. But also chunked wood basically dries itself, for free. Yes, it’s season dependent, but there are proper seasons for doing many activities.
I understand where you are coming from, aiming for uniformity, no variables or user skill on the fuel side, makes for far fewer variables to sort out with customers. But undeniably it is more energy intensive, complex and expensive.
1 Like
You are making my point.
1 Like
How is it more energy intensive? Think about it.
You are running smaller chipper so you are saving energy here
You waste nothing in this process. This is a gain here. this is less fuel you have to chip.
The mill process is hardly anything, its very fast low power, Your energy you put into this is less, you are no longer sorting fuel this just cut out hours of work. This is energy input, your labor is energy in.
The milling process replaces the drying process,. If you are off grid you will not be able to keep up with air drying. Especially in cold climates the moisture will freeze. Unless you store it some how, I dont know where I could store a mountain of chips though. Even if a 3000 kW pellet mill (less power than my HF Chipper is twice this power btw) only did produce 100 lbs pr hour. Do you think you could produce this much in chips? I know I cant Ive tried. Its not even worth trying when you buy 100 lbs for $14 bucks My time is worth more than that.
All energy needs to be factored; Chip fuel is way more than just chipping, all the energies involved all the way to where it is engine run ready needs to be factored. Pellets just as well.
3 Likes
In many areas there is a distinct drying season. For example, here firewood is best split in the winter, and if properly piled and kept out of the rain, it will be down to ideal moisture content by fall. The situation is far better for chunks, various have reported that in decent drying weather they dry in days or weeks.
Even Jo reports no major issues in keeping up with his wood supply, and I gather the drying conditions in his part of Sweden aren’t as good as most. So if planning ahead saves significant energy, I consider that the most practical.
The energy required to make pellets is essentially a full on manufacturing process, akin to what is needed to make particle board.
If consistency of fuel is the goal, I would suggest that coppice willow or other close caliper tolerance growth put through a rebak type chipper could produce a product of similar consistency, while embodying far less energy.
2 Likes
No there are a lot more reasons. Manufacturing cost, the price you save getting the pellet fueled version of my machines vs the larger wood chips (especially the auger fed) more than justifies the cost on processing equipment.
Weight pr volume is another.
I cant auger chunk fuels so I cant go down that path and is why I havent. Besides this I cant expect my clients to build a chunker. They buying from me for reason, typically they are not builders.
Machines need to be on the market and lower cost. Pelleting equipment is cheaper than a $2500.00 chipping machine.
I disagree it is great deal less of a process than making chips. Ive done it for 6 years
3 Likes
I wasn’t referring as much to chips, they are also a sort of manufactured product, though using much less energy. I think the fundamental problem with chips is just their shape, they are shaped to bind to each other, problems from the get go. For flow they need to be fed into a big diameter hearth, or they would need to be quite small. Pellets will have a natural flow.
But the energy consumption and complexity of pellets can’t be ignored, unless the intention is just to buy bags, as you describe.
Charcoal will come out ahead for smaller scale DIY, but I understand that isn’t what you encountered in the market you could serve.
3 Likes
See you are only factoring the chipping process as your only energy.
I am factoring all energy input. from machine, blood sweat, tears, from mother nature, free or not. Free energy is still energy in. .
They are probably very close to the same. Except the pelleting process is faster and less work for the user.
1 Like
You just wait I will automate this, all you will need to do is shove feed stock into the chipper and Ill link the rest to it.
Here is the other thing, the char pellets will provide the power for this equipment.
1 Like
There was once a point in my life where I made everything!! I need this: ah ill just make it!!!
Now Im older and now when I need something, Ill just buy it. Oh no money? Ah I can live out for now. lol
I already make way too much stuff. Im tired of making stuff!!
2 Likes
Good evening Matt, are there facts out on how long it takes too turn 100 pounds of wood chips into saw dust or wood shavings.?? FROM A HAMMER MILL.
2 Likes
Watch the videos, they speak for themselves
1 Like
Ok Matt i watched a few so far, mostly music playing not much else, and the ones i watched, the product looked like a crost between wood shaveing and sawdust, so im am not really fermilure with what a pellot machine needs too survive.
1 Like
Note the steam pooring off these pellets. Granted this is a PTO driven unit; however, its still the same mill used with the small engine powered versions. The tractor is bit over kill here.
That is also the beauty of the pellet mill. You not just limited to woody biomass.
1 Like