My current ideology is trying to spot and understand my own ideology…
All I find is SHEET!!!
And I realize I live in a world of it.
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Very true words William, we will never be a great nation again until there is a change in the hearts of people. The Living God of the Bible is not a Socialist, period. He expects (men) people to do 6 days of work and rest on the 7th day. We have people that embrace this (give me everything with out working for it. This destroying solialist structure that no nation has ever achieved, with out falling apart. Our government leaders are playing this racking up of trillions of dollars of debt to keep it going. The flow of monies will stop, and then what?
Do you have your truck running yet?
Gas prices going up will be a good sign that the monies are running out.
Bob
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I generally agree with all the points, but we can’t deny that Jesus said a camel will sooner pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man will enter heaven. To me that sounds like a revolutionary statement, he was rejecting the slave holding and class structure described in the old testament.
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Yup I don’t remember a single time in the new testament where Jesus refused to heal someone for their inability to pay. I do remember him providing food for the gathered masses free of charge.
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And you can not get cheese from a cow before it hatches…
YIKES!
That sound crazy!@@#$%$
Time to get hard on the binders.
Mutual respect and appreciation to my fellow posters!
We all have an IDEOLOGY.
We don’t like people trying to poke holes in it.
We think it is right and it fits our view of life and how we see and understand the world.
I have a thought machine running in my head.
Full of cogs and gears that run I hope in synchronicity with real life.
But I also have an intellectual file of my own making.
And I selectively file away teeth in my own thought machine.
We all do this, we harden over time.
It’s had to walk it back to a point before I became set in my ways.
We are all like that
But do we all realize how hard we cling to our ideology?
We can make small steps and corrections going forward but we can never change the way we have been shaped by life.
We do this all time often without even noticing but usually this goes in the same direction we were headed in our minds.
Real life altering Epiphanies are a rare thing. ( more often this is the filing of another tooth in my thought machine rather than trying to weld one in there HA HA )
But one minor correction I can do is try and defend a position or argument that run opposite to our ideology.
And if I can do that genuinely I learn from it.
I might be confronted by a truth I did not see our understand before. ( could happen but honestly I am not sure how many times in life I have had such a change of thought that it added a tooth and altered the way I really think on one momentous stroke )
Looking deeper and trying to stay on course and on time with where ever life leads us.
Some people appear to be completely nuts and out of time or step.
Are they really or is it my own thought machine that skips a few beats?
If I surround myself with like minded people all the time and listen too only what I want to hear I could well be the crazy one that who’s thought machine only keeps perfect time with the cuckoo clocks.
Everyday we are faced with reality that might challenge our belief system how life works.
How do we deal with this?
I know how I do I choose to except it. ( or DO I ??? )
In a real over simplification,I may be forced to use the math so to speak that 2+2=4 just to navigate life but deep down inside I may want to believe the math adds up to a different number.
This is not excepting reality this is only cherry picking the facts when they suit my needs ( my ideology )
I might continue to behave like the math adds up to 3 or 5 if it makes me feel better.
Really changing how you see and understand the world is very hard to do.
We have it in our power to be better wiser men if we try.
This requires furious analytical thought and a desire to learn.
Never going to change how you think about life but going forward you can choose to add to it and work real hard at not ignoring inconvenient truth by filing the cogs on our thought machines.
Several rewrites to this post if you were watching.
Maybe more to be added later…
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All good points. I never claimed that clan living was “good” But, here are a couple of points.
The hunter / farmer derives his support DIRECTLY by “controlling” nature.
The ruling class derive their support from controlling man. This is second hand control of resources, NOT direct control. The farmer / hunter has far more security as long as he is in harmony with nature. The ruling class are always insecure that their control may slip away. That’s why kings have armies. Granted, they must support the solders to maintain control. A robot army makes a lot of sense.
It is the insecurity of the ruling class that drives them to create a police-state. China has their_social credit_ system where a computer watches your EVERY detail of your actions. It punishes you for not being a good citizen. The Chinese fertility rate has dropped to 1.6
The PTB support their parasitism by demanding total control.
When Rome collapsed, the population fell from 1 million to 20,000. People wandered off into the countryside to do subsistence farming.
Because of their insecurities, the ruling class is always contesting with the working class. The ruling class has control of manufacturing. We could revert to clan living but, we wouldn’t have access to manufactured goods. We would like to have independence AND manufactured goods. DOW gives us a greater degree of independence.
As far as my Dakota, I’m in the city 1/4 mile from the fire station. The truck is built but, NOT dialed in. I started on that but, stuck my valves in an effort to burn in my char bed without creating any smoke.
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I think this is a very good point, and illustrates the importance of democracy. Only when man controls the ruling class can there be broad prosperity. Is it any wonder that the Nordic countries fare so well on ratings of happiness, when they do such a good job of tamping down the would-be ruling class? I firmly believe in the idea of democratic socialism, where an educated and informed population decides where public resources should be spent for best effect. But education is key. If the population is ignorant, or too set in their ways to be able to see what is truly in the common good, then all it takes is a bit of propaganda to restore control over them.
I like your conceptualization of you mind as a machine, Wallace, with the teeth slowing wearing to the point where it changes the gearing. I think you have really hit on an important notion though about being willing to question our own conclusions. Without the ability to look at the world objectively, and recognize that we may in fact be wrong about our deeply held beliefs, we will never find actual truth. At the risk of going down a real rabbit hole, I wonder how much this has to do with the weight that our cultural forebears put on apostasy. In essence, I wonder, are people allowing their way of thinking about spiritual matters seep over into their thinking about the mundane? Once we start applying faith in places that call for reason, I think we have erred. (And on a concillatory note, we could also probably agree that we should not try to apply reason to matters of Faith).
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[quote=“oregoncarl, post:68, topic:4476”]
I think this is a very good point, and illustrates the importance of democracy. Only when man controls the ruling class can there be broad prosperity. Is it any wonder that the Nordic countries fare so well on ratings of happiness, when they do such a good job of tamping down the would-be ruling class? I firmly believe in the idea of democratic socialism, where an educated and informed population decides where public resources should be spent for best effect. But education is key. If the population is ignorant, or too set in their ways to be able to see what is truly in the common good, then all it takes is a bit of propaganda to restore control over them.
Hi Carl
I fully share your point of view. At first I thought you were a vinegrower then I realized that you were also an “engineer” and now I think you’re also a “philosopher” 
I like to hear my thoughts, expressed by others, in a language different from mine 
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I am not Amish , I am glad I am not Amish . I can still pray for them .
EPA inspectors found violations on 85 percent of the Amish farms. They warned the farmers that about half of their drinking water was contaminated with pathogens, and that they needed plans to bring their farms into the modern age of pollution control and conservation.
It’s not like some of the Amish farmers weren’t aware of these problems. One of them had just installed a water-treatment system because he believed the pollution caused his cows to birth dead calves. And the wider damage to the Chesapeake has been well-reported in the region: Excess manure from farms leads to algae blooms that contribute to large swaths of “dead zones,” where crabs and fish are so deprived of oxygen that they can’t survive.
“Plain Sect” Amish eschew any kind of government intervention. They consider themselves sovereign. They neither pay into social security and government health benefits nor receive them. They speak their own language and attend their own schools. They follow their own scriptures and codes. So it’s not surprising that some of their farms wouldn’t be up to EPA’s codes.
Pennsylvania has a law known as ACRE (Agriculture Communities & Rural Environment) or Act 38. The first paragraph of the law states: ACRE creates a process for farmers to seek judicial review of ordinances believed to be restrictive of normal agricultural operations. Farmers will have the ability to request the Pennsylvania Attorney General to review an ordinance restricting agriculture that the farmer believes to be illegal (ACT 38 of 2005). The law was enacted to protect farmers from municipal ordinances that would interfere with traditional farming practices resulting in forcing the farm out of business or causing great financial burden. An example of a restrictive municipal ordinance could be Air Quality/“Noxious” Odors that would attempt to mitigate odor problems by establishing vague restrictions and guidelines for what constitutes a violation (ACRE 2005). Some municipalities have also tried to enact ordinances that limit farm size, who can own a farm, set water supply protections that require setbacks in excess of what is required by the Nutrient Management Act, and restrictions on construction of new buildings or roads that are necessary to operate the farm. Before ACRE, when a municipality passed an ordinance on agriculture and a farmer felt it was unlawful (in violation of state law) or jeopardized his operation the only recourse was to sue the municipality.
In a letter from PA Secretary of Agriculture, Dennis C. Wolff, to Friends of Agriculture he wrote: “This new law will address potentially restrictive local agricultural ordinances affecting the state’s leading economic enterprise. I believe Act 38 strikes the proper balance between farmers and communities by creating a process for farmers to seek review of ordinances believed to be illegal and restrictive of normal agricultural or farming operations” (July 13, 2005). He also goes on to say, “Our goal was to provide agriculture the opportunity to grow and adapt to business changes, while also addressing the needs of communities to protect the environment. Act 38 helps accomplish that goal” (July 13, 2005). ACRE provides piece of mind to farmers who diligently are good stewards of land, water and air, who have filed and follow nutrient management requirements, federal air and water quality regulations and meet the right to farm law. An illegal municipal ordinance hurts all of us, farms go out of business, the supply of grains, dairy products, eggs and meat, we all take for granted, are lost and raises food costs across the board for everyone
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Unfortunately there is a big difference between the word “Farmers” and what we are facing today which is “Commercial Farms”. Commercial farms are concerned with one thing-- money. TomC
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Pure democracy is 2 wolves, and a sheep deciding what’s for lunch.
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Democracy has a very socialist slant to it.
All men equal with one vote a piece…
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That’s why we have a representative republic, a much better system. I don’t like the fact that some in our government think they are smarter than the founders of this great nation.
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Pretty good system too.
A system designed to gum up and stop people who do not have the best interest of the majority in mind.
I am pretty darn impressed with strength of American democracy to resist change that would weaken it…
The real jewel is the bill of rights, the template for so many other bills and charters made in its spirit.
Good government requires good men ( and ladies )
I am reminded of the Spanish coup of 1981.
In that case king Juan Carlos I put in his uniform as commander and chief and basically ordered his army to obey the civilian authorities.
Here was a man groomed by a fascist dictator to take over after his death doing the exact opposite and returning power to the people and acting as guardian of their constitutional rights.
In this case a constitutional monarch used powers normally one would consider ceremonial to defend the people’s voice in the halls of power.
"I address the Spanish people with brevity and concision:
In the face of these exceptional circumstances, I ask for your serenity and trust, and I hereby inform you that I have given the Captains General of the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force the following order:
Given the events taking place in the Palace of Congress, and to avoid any possible confusion, I hereby confirm that I have ordered the Civil Authorities and the Joint Chiefs of Staff to take any and all necessary measures to uphold constitutional order within the limits of the law.
Should any measure of a military nature need to be taken, it must be approved by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
The Crown, symbol of the permanence and unity of the nation, will not tolerate, in any degree whatsoever, the actions or behavior of anyone attempting through use of force to interrupt the democratic process of the Constitution, which the Spanish People approved by vote in referendum. ".
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This is becoming too political, I agree with you , but not right place to talk about it…
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Which is only a problem if you are a member of a small minority who wants to impose their will on a larger majority.
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You mean like 4 major cities deciding every Pres. election for the whole country? Ben Franklin compared it to mob rule. Just because a majority of people want something doesn’t mean it is the right thing to do.
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4 major cities don’t decide the election results. The issue there is winner take all states where 51% of the voters determine how 100% of the electoral college votes for the state go. Remove that bias and you will have a repetitive democracy in this republic like the founding fathers intended. But that is straight politics. My point was simply to show how silly the 2 wolves and a sheep argument is because it is an attempt by a minority to impose their will on the majority. The reality is we have basic laws and a constitution which protect the sheep from being dinner.
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I also believe the American democratic model is the most robust on the planet, it has had a good go. I recently read a speech Kurt Vonnegut gave at a fundraiser for the ACLU back in the day. I’ve abbreviated it some, removing the humour but keeping the logic. I think it’s a good examination.
I will speak of Thomas Aquinas instead. I will tell you my dim memories of what he said about the hierarchy of laws on this planet, which was flat at the time. The highest law, he said, was divine law, God’s law. Beneath that was natural law, which I suppose would include thunderstorms, and our right to shield our children from poisonous ideas, and so on.
And the lowest law was human law.
Let me clarify this scheme by comparing its parts to playing cards. Enemies of the Bill of Rights do the same sort of thing all the time, so why shouldn’t we? Divine law then, is an ace. Natural law is king. The Bill of Rights is a lousy queen.
Cannot we, as libertarians, hunger for at least a little natural law? Can’t we learn from nature at least, without being burdened by another person’s idea of God?
What troubles me most about my lovely country is that it’s children are seldom taught that American freedom will vanish, if, when they grow up, and in the exercise of their duties as citizens, they insist that our courts and policemen and prisons be guided by divine or natural law.
I have not said that our government is anti nature and anti-God: I have said that it is non-nature and non-God, for very good reasons that could curl your hair.
Well, all good things must come to an end, they say. So American freedom will come to an end too, sooner or later. How will it end? As all freedoms end: by the surrender of our destinies to the highest laws.
To return to my foolish analogy of playing cards: kings and aces will be played. Nobody else will have anything higher than a queen.
There will be a struggle between those holding kings and aces. The struggle will not end, not that the rest of us will care much by then, until somebody plays the ace of spades. Nothing beats the ace of spades.
I thank you for your attention.
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Yes sirry bob! But does a right place to talk about it exist?
Rindert
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