So John, this is not the right forum for it but I would dispute the sustainability of horses depending on what kind of ground you have. I would say my 28hp tractor fed on charcoal requires less land and more marginal land then a team of horses. I live where open pastured land is a rare thing let alone rock free fields for oats. Trees though we have a lot. The tractor is under the charcoal section.
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Then I’m finished here as my intentions are to build a stationary power unit. This suplements some of the things I do with horses. Tractors verses horses zero comparison as they have advantages. We have horses, a tractor and a cat skids teen each with a purpose. Thanks guys
John, please don’t be finished here. There are other stationary units here and I for one am interested in anything that makes power from wood gas and I am sure we can answer questions and help you with build ideas. I think you are in the right place.
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We need you here John. I have a use for a stationary unit myself. I could use 100 HP for 22 hrs a day _6 days a week your views and thoughts would be invaluable to that end.
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Hi John,
I agree with the others, stationary units are being built here. I’ve been working on one, getting decent gas and learning a lot. There’s basically 2 designs, the WK (Wayne Keith type fully documented) and imbert styles (also well represented). Powering vehicles is just putting a stationary unit in a pickup bed, so there’s a lot of info that’s pertinent here, please stick around, you’ll be glad you did. Here’s a pic of my unit on a 4’ x 4’ pallet. Check out my entry in the Small gas section named “My first small engine run”, lots of how I did it photos, vids, etc. to picque your interest. This unit is an imbert type, presently with Line D dimensions on the imbert chart. This can easily be sized for 6 Kw. I would use 10 Kw dimensions though, woodgas has only 60 % of the energy of gasoline so oversizing design is better. Check out the library here to see the imbert chart.
Pepe
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What a great topic.
Why am I interest in wood gas. First off I live in an old farm house built in 1901 and it still has all the original windows door and siding so it doesn’t heat well. I burn 12 cord of wood a winter. I want to update the house but that is time and money I don’t have right now. Trying to get the old farm back inorder.
I left industry working as a controls engineer to move back to the farm. I enjoy growing my own food it is healthier by far compared to what you get at the store.
To me there are two big issues and being independent of the power company and fuel companies would be doing me small part about them.
First issue big business is the worst thing of our times. I have worked for big companies who actually told us in large group meeting we wouldn’t get a raise because payroll was just a cost to be controlled they needed to maximize profit. I have worked for small companies bought out by big companies only to see payroll fixed where it was and to see benefits dropped. All in the name of profits for the few at the top. So finial I decided what I could do is leave and not contribute to big business. I was through being part of a team which designed new systems worth millions if dollars a year in profit only to be told there was no way we could get bonuses or raises. I decided if they couldn’t give back to the employees who build the company I didn’t want to be a part of it.
The other part for me is the mess in the middle east. I honestly believe if it wasn’t for oil the usa never would have gone over there for the war that has raged for the better part of 2 decades now. I can’t begin to say how much that bugs me.
Then I look at my electric bill and see that very little of that bill is actually for the power most of the bill is fixed charges. That bugs me more big business just charging because they can if you ask me.
So in the end my interest is to not be part of the problem but to be part of the solution. Is wood the solution for everyone. No but then I think what everyone overlooks is that going forward there won’t be a one solution fits all world for energy. To me it is going to be look around at your local resources and see what will fit your needs best. Here I have more wood that rots every year then I could ever work up and use so it is a resource I have in abundance.
So that is it for me I am sick of working for big business and sick of being part of the oil market that drives wars in the middle east.
My goal is to provide local grass fed beef and to sell the excess hay I have but to do as much as I can with local resources. I don’t know if it is reasonable to think I could convert all the tractors to wood but I do have a truck I can start with and see just how much wood it takes to just haul the hay the mile back to my barns. That is a start. Last summer I got a small case ingersoll 448 garden tractor setup with a 10hp diesel motor that raked all my hay for the summer on just 7 gallons of fuel 10000 bales. My other tractors would have burned that same 7 gallons and only raked maybe 1000 bales of hay. So that was a big improvement. So that is where I am at and my goals.
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10,000 bales??? That would be 50 hay wagons of the small How many acres is you farm? TomC
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I have 105 acres of fields that have been neglected for about 15 years. I have gotten about 70 of them opened up so far. I brush hogged off another 15 acres in the fall only to find that the renters left massive ruts all over it. I still haven’t figured out how I will fix it in the spring. I don’t have the tools I should to fix it right.
Oh yes I do make the small square bales.
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I think I’ll throw my $0.02 in here even though I currently don’t drive on wood, but am just starting on a path to wood gas that will probably lead to there. I’ve been interested in wood gas since the mid/late 2000’s when fuel up here got to $1.50/litre ($5.67/USG). I bought a house in 2000, and heating oil was $.33/litre, this also shot up to .75/L at which point I went to pellets. The heating oil price eventually went to 1.40/ litre - that would have been a $6300.00 heating bill for one year in my old 1870 farmhouse - being a highly taxed Ontarian, I’d have to earn about $8700.00 gross to have enough left over to pay that bill. It was a crazy time with line ups at the pumps, and it all ended in the Global Financial Crisis when just about everything went bust - including my previous employer of 15 years. All of the above eventually became the meat and potatoes for a slow realization that things were changing in a way I had not seen before in my lifetime.
Fast forward again another 9 years or so, and things have not got any better up here, worse actually. The economic outlook going forward is bleak, Ontario has a horrible business climate these days, and we’ve lost hundreds of thousands of FT high paying jobs over the last decade. Federally, our new PM is still pretty fresh off the blocks, loves spending, deficits, and debt - he will be eaten alive by the likes Trump in the days to come. Seems like half our new “gender neutral” federal cabinet ministers were eligible for student wage 5 years ago.
The average Canadian family is already spending more on taxes than on food, shelter and clothing combined. It’s pretty clear to me at this point that the old days are gone for good, and things will definitely be getting even worse before anything get’s better. All current projections indicate that “getting better” is not even on the table prior to 2027.
So, in 2016 I formulated a plot to severely reduce my exposure to government at all levels. Some taxes I can’t avoid, same with some fees, but most of them can be massaged to some extent. That’s where wood gas comes in, heat, electricity (TOU supplement), maybe even a wood-gas powered vehicle.
I want to be prepared for them when the current revenue streams prove insufficient - they’re already pounding things you can’t say no to in Ontario like cars ownership, gasoline, and electricity. That will be the future for a good long time to come up here. I’m glad I live in a small village with a few acres around me so I can experiment with stuff like this!
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Strawman you don’t paint a pretty picture of life for my neighbors to the north. Though I think the major difference is your government is trying to pay it’s bills with taxes and we just act like they don’t exsist. I think you are right that good times are a long ways off for everyone too many past unbalanced debts the world over.
Glad you found your way here. I am also one of the ones who is learning and figuring out what I can do but hasn’t started building yet. In the short time I have been here I can tell you that this site gives me hope for the future. It is people like the ones here who will ultimately contribute the most to turning things around and finding a better life for themselves and their extended families. By extended families I mean friends who come together to help each other out with common interests.
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I read the whole thread and no-one said zombie apocalypse. I too have not driven on wood although I have driven slowly on another members charcoal tractor. Probably the better choice for our area and I hope to attach a charcoal rig to one of my tractors this summer. Same wish as last winter, it must be like a New Years eve resolution with me.
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That’s not fair Wyatt… its not the charcoals fault even on gasoline my fergie is slow!
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No disrespect meant to Fergie David, all tractors are slow compared to trucks. No comment about the zombie apocalypse?, that was definitely your button I was pushing, wanted to see if you were paying attention. I do think that " zombie apocalypse " can be used as an instantly recognizable label for any kind of major civilization disturbing event. I find post apocalyptic storytelling to be very interesting, when brainstorming for solutions to possible problems it can be very thought provoking and even enlightening to read what someone else has envisioned.
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That is ok hook then up to a pull sled and see who wins the tractor or the truck. I think the tractor will get a full pull first…
Dan, there comes a time when a guy has to make a call. Ontario has had a disastrous past decade.
Ontario now has 300+ billion in debt, 11.5 million citizens of working age, 61% employment rate, and roughly 1.2 million public servants. That means only about 5.8 million GDP creating private sector workers are servicing that 300 Billion (and counting). That’s almost $52,000 per head. The median individual income per year in Canada is just $27,600.00, and that’s before income taxes, EI premiums, and CPP deductions.
Over 80% of Ontario exports go to the USA, and 35% of all our exports is auto sector. Now Trump runs the show, and he’s got some different ideas about where American manufacturers should be making their products compared to the last guy.
In Ontario private sector middle class wealth is disappearing while government keeps getting bigger and more expensive. The Ontario citizenry is hopelessly anti-austerity. Debts and deficits are huge, and the Premiere here is selling off massive publicly owned assets (like the electrical grid) to private interests trying to come up with a balanced budget.
So… taxes / fees are going to soar over the next decade+ here in Ontario, and the methods used to maintain provincial revenues will be down and dirty because that’s the only way it’ll work. I don’t have a problem with taxes at all as long as they are consumption based and I have the choice to not pay them by not buying the highly taxed products. But if government is going to abusively tax the essentials of life that no one can do without - well I’ll be doing a lot to avoid paying them. Property taxes, electricity, gasoline, heating fuels, mandatory insurances, car ownership and more will be at the epicenter of future taxes because most folks can’t really avoid them. Urban folks will get totally hammered with stuff like this.
I’m not the type to sit for long hoping for the best, I’d rather have a game plan already tried, tested, and up and running before trouble shows up on my doorstep.
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Hey Dave, I’m cool when other folks disagree with my opinion, no worries. One of the great things about taking the bull by the horns for the wellbeing of my own household, is it puts my mind to better use than stewing over what the politicians are going to do next. I find planning what liberation I can realize from those that have power over me is therapeutic on its own. I’m after as much choice over my own life and finances as possible, wood gas can provide some of it. If I end up wrong about where Canada and Ontario is going - I’ll actually be pretty bloody happy about it, as my roots here are too deep to dig up and re-plant.
Differences in opinion is just life, I don’t expect all others to see things my way, and I’ve been around long enough to learn you can’t change anyone’s mind. I live and let live while attempting to focus on what I may have in common with other folks.
In retrospect, my post earlier does look like a political rant, so I apologize for that. I shouldn’t be hanging red meat out there like that 
(Kidding!)
A better way to summarize my thoughts on wood gas may be that I simply see it as a little oasis where I might captain my own ship a little longer than I otherwise would be able to. 
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If the surface ruts are the issue, I recommend dragging a heavy I beam or or railroad iron over the ground in the spring. In the west we have a similar ongoing problem with pocket gophers, which tend to wreck alfalfa as much from predation as mounds.
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It is so bad it a couple of old farmers told me it looked like a dead furrow from plowing. Except that there are two of then from the water tanker. I have a grader blade and was thinking I would try to grade it out. Just not sure my tractor has the torque to break up the sod that is there.
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Dragging shouldn’t be an issue, and time heals wounds in soil, it tends to level.
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