Preaching to the choir about the better air pump Bruce. Most people do not realize that even our bodies are internal combustion machines. The harder you work the more air your lungs have to pump to fire off the fuel your food provides. Cheapest way to get more power out of an engine is a tuned exhaust system. Logic would seem to indicate that tubes straight out of the exhaust ports should be as good as you get. Zoomies. Turns out to not be the case. An engineered exhaust system creates vortices as the gases pulse through the collector which actually serves to pull a greater volume of gas out of the combustion chamber. Even the length of the pipe beyond the collector can alter the flow characteristics. Two Stroke engines with their weird exhaust chambers are outside my area of practical experience.
Hmmm. Yes. Much to experiences, think about now.
Ha! TomH., your “Hayabusa” was an unfamiliarly word to me. “When in worry, when in do doubt . . . keep your mouth shut to keep the shit out.” Oh Yes I had to learn to heads off deal with lots of double overhead I-4’s, V-6’s yep you betcha’ FOR PAY. Grrr. Wifie, not knowing buying these . . . (My secret, self-learned, was to always reverse back the crankshaft CCW 15-60 degrees from #1 TDC. Then all pistons are down enough when you release the t-belt or chain, no freed cam could on ramp pressure spinback, and damage valves. Four valve system have very narrow stems.)
And I did catch the Suzuki reference. Only one, oops two of those in water cooled vehicles. Motorcycles i was always single cylinder 2-strokes. The big 'ol 400 and 500 Kawasaki and Suzuki’s were raging killers, man.
S.U.
Good. Good. Good.
Everyone so far here has made wood or chargas and ran loaded engine with those.
We are all in this for using, practical reasons.
This is very important.
You read those India Institute of Science very tongue-in-cheek. Over-all too esoteric, geeky.
Only If H.S. Mukunda authors really trust the applicable validity. I read these all in raw as IISC internal studies before the journals publication sanitizing. That was 2008-2010. I then got pay-wall locked out.
H.S. Mukunda when he was Director made one of his interns repeat a whole engine series because he wanted all Lab works to be practical across India useable. NO, not valid to run the gasifer for an hour, two hours for “prefect gases”. As soon as the engine can run it. Right on out to with batch ending gas.
Just like Wayne Keith and other real roads drivers: J.O., Don Maines, Paul O’brian, now Marcus and others, running with what they are getting. Starting gases; mid-hopper gases, raw wood emptied now char burning, low-no hydrogen, gasses.
S.U.
Existing engine optimizing modifications.
I’ve never custom camshaft bought and replaced. To damn expensive. Factory cams if not stupid emissions biases did make the best torque. Many of the practical engines those engines had older cams available.
As the Inernet presenter guys have said better results playing with exhaust, and intakes. Just stick with the info guys. Not the parts sponsored seller “influencer” guys.
You really can DIY steel tube intakes make up. A real skills challenge. Just like exhausts. Done it.
You can ignition timing tweak right out is loss-of-power. Ha! Or aluminum beads splashing onto the spark plugs. My Saab all-cast iron V-4. had to come from the piston crowns.
And compression jack does not have to be a custom honed-in, fitted pistons, expense.
All machine shops will flatten, machine cylinder heads. Find the right one and they’ll machine the deck too if you do the full block stripping out and degrease.
Or . . . big plate glass and lots of elbow grease and patience DIY these. Done that. Ha! Only once on a V engine. That V-4, street racer cheating. (no rules. no inspectors. just point A to B on tight twisty mountains and river roads. we used pump high leaded premium. aviation gasoline. cheats.)
I am glad I came out of that to practical 300,000+ getting stretching outs. That’s practical, and family supporting.
Here was one of my early on’s in that transition street-sleeper cars: AMC/Rambler (later Jeep) cast iron 258’s (4.2L?) and 232, later 4.0L’s inline sixes:
https://theamcforum.com/forum/258-compression-ratio-rebuild_topic48935.html
Fredrick Eks woodgased engine. Did he jack his compression? Never asked.
Chris Seanz once put up links to DIY compression boosting from his Geo Metro car days.
Steve Unruh
This stills amazes me on my WK Gasifier the last 10 minutes or so is the best gases going to the engine. You can feel the difference in performance. But you also know that the hopper is about empty and time to refill.
I have not done this but I wonder if I would refill at this time what would happen?
Always experimenting.
Bob
Edit: Opps sorry Steve I put this in the wrong thread.
Works just fine here too BobMac.
S.U.
Fellows, all of our actually loaded running of any IC Piston engines on woodgas, or chargas has valid lessons.
Point of fact.
At the same time period Dutch John was developing and building up his person use DJ-3 system. I was developing similar too. Forgive any of my memory slips.
He was using a very modern ~5500 watt on gasoline new engine generator. The engine overhead valve, push rods. A Chinese Honda-type slant cylinder clone.
I was in the Vancouver WA, Victory Gasworks Shop trying to develop a bolt onto these Honda-clone generator sets an auto woodgas mixer that could be supplied, and sold. I was using BenP’s Briggs and Stratton branded 6500 watt set. Same type. Slant cylinder, overhead valves, pushrod engine.
Both of these were for regular unleaded gasolines so easy to figure both had 8-1, 9-1 compression ratios.
As a percentage of the original sets on gasoline rating he was always beating me on percentage produced of loaded electrical power with wood gas.
He was aircleaner box mixing keeping the restrictive gasoline venturi carburetor.
I was hand making bolt on no-restriction intake feeding.
I tried different intake controls configurations. Pictured here somewhere on the old Dru-Pal Dow.
I tried three different models of BenBuilt gasifiers. Different woods. Tried the same wood species, cut the same as he was using.
He still was exceeding me.
He did not care. He was not racing me. I cared about the Why of it. Know why was one of the keys to developing a better product.
Neither one of us was compression boosting. Or ignition timing changing.
It was the loaded running RPM.
He was 50 hertz 3000 RPM.
I was locked into 3600 RPM for our USA, 60 hertz.
Then you driving loading woodgas guys confirmed my hunch. Yes you may be able to rev up to 4000, even 5000 rpm. For best results you are loaded running 1800+/- Rpm.
Another reason I selected the GMC boxvan over the Ford. The GMC had a numerically lower rear axle ratio. 3.xx versus 4.xx Get’s it’s starting pulling having one more trans gear lower.
Observations lead to conclusions. Conclusions lead to beliefs. And these drive selection decisions.
Steve Unruh
Steve that is one reason why I like my Sierra. I can put it into Tow Mode/Trailer Mode and it gives longer dwell times in the gears. Doesn’t lock out Overdrive but delays it. Very slow shifting to keep in the torque band I assume.
When I’m babbling on about the minutia of tweaking bits of power out of various components I am not advocating it. Buying or building a six hundred dollar set of exhaust headers is the cheapest path to another sixty horsepower on a big block anything but all these engines, as the company engineers design them and the company produces them for the least amount of bucks possible are more than ample for average use. It’s the same across the board. Driving down the road with a 1930’s design front suspension on a hot rod or with a Corvette with full independent, gas shocked coil over rack and pinion change the diaper on your baby suspension are both going to get the average guy to his job just the same. The wheels on the straight axle are going to turn and it will hold the road at 70 MPH just fine. So unless you need to get to work going 150 MPH you have basically thrown away, say for effect, 30 K.
So yes, going on about cam timing, rod lengths, rocker arm ratios, and all the rest is not at all important. None of us are going to do anything to alter those things. I still think it fun but I guess there is no point in risking growing hair on my palms or going blind as mother warned.
Not at all TO work. Maybe home from work 
No.No. Not babble.
This is giving tools-of-understanding woodgas for your own works.
Explaining and promoting to others.
First just understanding that a 720 degree rotating crankshaft piston internal combustion engine really only gets convertible pushing power over at best ~90 of those turning degrees. NOT 180 degrees. The rest of the full cycles turning degrees the crankshaft is having to momentum push-pull that piston until RESET for another power input pushing.
Flywheel mass? Yep. But just more, better? No. Better to let the residual pressure out fast. Reduce the drags.
Add another cylinder to fill-in, help out. Yep. O.K.!! Add yet another cylinder for three? Another one more cylinder for four? O.K. Then another? Errr. Maybe. Depends on the total gross power needs. Starting to hit diminishing returns on cylinders, bud.
And that is just one or more of the conclusions brought out into the light.
Gotta’ chose your mantra:
“No replacement for displacement when woodgasing.” Many here woodgas powering using that.
“The replacement for displacement is jacked up, boosted compression ratios for woodgas” Some doing, proving this now too.
If we were Gasoline, then a mantra could be, "For more power is RPM, more RPM, and More RPM. That’s out the window for woodgas.
Or, “For real woodgas power skip right over natural aspirated and pressure boost the air and the woodgas.” I only know of a few examples of that. Pictures of busted engines in Vesa Mikkonens book. One on the DOW, doing, and not claiming gains.
Ha! Better this topic than “Woodgas Myth’s: Busted!” Way too argumentative. I tread lightly now. I’ve done run out of Bars to be thrown out of. I’m a last chance woodgas Charlie now.
Regards
Steve Unruh
Well fellows, here’s Steve Unruh posting up corrections about being 80% wrong.
Previosly I posted up the far too many internal monkey motion design flaws in the Ford V-10 truck engines.
I was correct about the 30 cam follower fingers. Everything else was tweeky memory listing off the DOHC V-8’s Triton problems.
Here’s the real deal V-10:
Looks to be a lot related to the previous widely used 4.6L single overhead cam V-8’s.
Considered by many to be a very reliable long lived engine. The cop and taxi car engines.
Ha! Given a choice to still be able to get a short chain driven, cam-in-block, push rod actuated, 2-valve large displacement engine that’s where my money went. What I’d recommend Any to woodgas instead.
Steve Unruh
Wow. I’ve seen engines with the whole bottom of the block detonated and they were in better shape than that. Freeze plugs looked good though. Low oil doesn’t explain all that damage to me. Makes a good case for forged rods though.
Over the last 15 years I have tried to really understand just what is happening with woodgas inside IC engines; I have followed many false trails.
Hard to say. Did I become first an Automotive working Performance Technician, just for the money? Or the driven desire from a boy to know the whys? Then farther advanced to Avanced Engine Performance Tech, and Emission Tech. Even later Certify in Propane and Methane engine fuels. (Those i never worked as having no working opportunists in my residence area.)
Woodgas is a wildly varying blend of three non-condensable simple molecules engine fuel gases.
The only comparable usages out there are working Natural Gas IC engines. Industrial waste gas using IC engines. Hydrogen in development, and now, very limited production using IC engines.
Here is a very good Hydrogen versus Gasoline in IC engines explanation:
Nitrogen. I can’t wrap my head around it. Makes up almost 80 percent of the Earth’s atmosphere. Essential for all plant life. Nitrous oxide. N02 energizes gasoline fuel, lets the dentist do horrible things to your mouth and you don’t care. Nitrogen oxide. N20 Reduces energy in fuel and causes lung problems.
Also is 14 to 1 really the optimum air/fuel ratio for Gasoline? I would find that to be a little lean and and not too far south of melting things. I think around 12 to 1 would be be a preferred optimum. Excellent posts SteveU.
Hehehe … Very entertaining video. As the past of several shops exhaust guy and much playtime with the triton line I was immediately drawn eyeballs to all the broken exhaust studs he never mentioned. Painfully hours. Triton sparkplugs. More painfully hours. I like how even knowing full well the motor was not savable he still tore down in reverse of torque sequence, shows he knows what he is doing.
This is how I imagine the conversation went
Phone call 1
Worker: Hey boss, I’m halfway to the job sight and the oil pressure light just came on, do you still want me to drop off the excavator?
Boss: ya it’s been doing that lately, it will be fine
Phone call 2
Hey boss man, this thing is making some terrible noises
Don’t worry, it’s a Ford
Phone call 3
Hey boss it’s knocking and low on power
Just get the machine to the job and stop calling me
Text message
Hey boss, machine is at the sight, had to track it three miles down the interstate to get it there. Truck and trailer are on the side of the road, I quit.
That is a product of shear abuse, there are thousands of Fords around here from gas drilling companies with hundreds of thousands miles on them. I am not a fan of any of these modular engines, but they work well if properly maintained.
I actually agree with you Al F.
On that guys, I Do Cars, channel he has now hundreds of videos of every kind of modern larger output power IC engines died from lack of oil changed. Or using crap-cheap oil, or oil filters.
Then also very oils done well, internally clean engines with that designs bad-luck pattern failures. Dodge Hemi’s with dropped valve seats. Dodges, GM and Fords with too many commanded cylinder deactivation systems that past 80K-120K have killed engines. On all of the light duty pickup’s. NOT installed on the HD working trucks.
Still . . . Marcus and I are speaking from the stand point of the working mechanics had to in-vehicle replace the heats cycled broken off exhausts stud and bolts so’s the truck would quit coding out for “I think I have a Cat performance problem”. And the far to many deep down long narrow hole stripped spark plug having to repair in place attempts. After the first guy, 2nd guy, was just trying to do normal spark plug services. NO CHOICE. You have to apply the force needed to 70K-120K get them out. Now do that being the 2nd guy After someone eles’s thread repair JOB! Sorry. Sorry. Mr Truck owner. New cylinder head time now. And oh by the way, goona’ need the third generation upgraded parts in the cam phasers, oil control valves, and 8x3=24 in cam follower’s fingers too. Hmmm. New cams too to go with those new fingers you know.
The previous generations Fords V-8 engines had none of these.
View; Ford Miklado Tech: The Car Wizard (bad name hung by his wife); Main Street Repair and see all of this.
Wanna Ford HD pick up? Go old. Pre-Trident gas rigs.
Go with the diesel. Invest the time and $'s to learn that.
Little Sister knows I’ll give her no time on her Ford F150 dual turbo Eco-Boosts. (except install one of the three ways found to all-the-time, deactivate her annoying Stop-Start system.)
Regards
Steve Unruh
Ha! Ha! I see the should-be-better pressure boosting guys exchanging over on that topic’s thread.
That is O.K. too. Go for it.
You say it. You do it. You prove it out.
And in my imho that should be this forums core mantra’s. (Nope. No worries. I am not in charge here. No Putianizing from me possible here.)
Back on topic what matters most for understanding woodgas POWER combustion inside of piston → connecting rods → crankshafts internal combustion engines is other engines using true gaseous fuels. Liquid fuels experiences: gasoline, diesel, kerosene’s; alcohols, liquefied petroleum GASSES (they are blended!) will deceive you.
Gaseous IC engines experiences are in the world wide BIG-boy engine manufacturers. They do not talk much. Open source release out even less.
Experiences are the most accessible in the oil field walking beams sucker rod pump engines. 24/7 364 with only hopefully one day a years shutting downs for maintenances.
Some in the Municipalities, and very few Natural gas utilities using fully dedicated purpose converted, compressed natural gas vehicles.
This last the most relevant to you actual Driving On Wood guys.
Stationary power woodgasers it is those well pumping engines. Water irrigation and gas/oil wells.
Search in these places.
Every place else is bit and pieces you can cherry pick out. Like IISc papers. WWII historical documents.
Wifie, Sunday duties now.
Later Woodgasers
Steve Unruh
Edit add: work hard, find just the right guy, on just the right day and you too can touch, listen to some of the landfills using dedicated small IC engine generators to eat-up dispose of that landfills BOO! HISS! Gobal Warming farting out gasses, pretty much as they are made. Modern production engines. Kubota’s mostly. A few using small Caterpillar engines. The actual landfill operator will not know much about the actual engine. Certainly near nothing about it’s guts.
Then ones I have seen are microturbines that can utilize the low concentration of methane in the basically sewer gas.