Working toward food self sufficiency

Off Topic Homesteading
#401

My mother and I experimented with hydroponics, or bubbleponics. Worked great with tomatoes and leafy greens. We just kept snipping off a leaf or two of lettuce or kale when we wanted them. The leafy plants just kept growing in our homeostatic den. We’d cull them when the stalk grew too close to the lamps and just start over again from seedlings.

Used buckets with baskets that had the puffed clay pebbles, and an air pump.

We sold one of the lamps to a cousin who used it for cloning trees and shrubs and flowers. I kept the other lamp for growing taters indoors. I’m not a fan of the ones we got because they give off a crazy purple light that makes me feel temporarily colorblind if I’m around it for too long.

The liquid fertilizers had a bunch of funky colors and I don’t think any of them were organically sourced like Fish Emulsion would be, but at least they didn’t stink. Lots of PH balancing because of our harder water, and having to top off the water.

If I had a whole room dedicated to it, I’d still do soil indoors with grow lights.

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#402

I originally set my my Greenhouse/lab for aquaponics but without some sort of 24/7 assured power it was just too risky especially in an area with hard winters. Many very expensive disasters documented on youtube. I play with Kratky for lettuce and tomatoes and I intend to do a lot more with it. I plan to do some Dutch Buckets using char as the grow matrix instead of perlite. In my opinion the MHPgardener had the best YT channel for these alt methods.

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#403

I will go back after kratky, aeroponics with the ultrasonic mister is the priority project right now since it roots cuttings faster then other methods. The reason is because you are in full control and the anaerobic micro organisms which are generally harmful, are kept away because of the aerobic conditions, and generally more sterile environment. In theory, you are providing more ideal growing conditions.

The main benefit is you have 100% control over everything which is also the main drawback because that means you need a better understanding of what needs to happen. :slight_smile: TBH, as much as we know, there is a lot we don’t know as well.

You may be interested for a couple of reasons, with lights you can get out of season fresh vegetables, and you can use multiple tiers so the inside space is reduced. Outside, it is generally less labor intensive, there is no weeding, tilling, etc. And you get more consistent results. however it has a higher startup cost and potentially higher fertilizer cost, and definitely, if you are using pumps and lights higher growing costs. But out of season fresh vegetables have more market value.

The costs have come down drastically. After I read that aeroponics did a better job at cloning, and I had to get a pump for cleaning the furnace, I was all ready to get a pump aeroponics system, but then aliexpress had 4 ultrasonic misters and a controller board for 7 dollars, which is cheaper then just the pvc I would of had to buy to get a spray system and I think it uses less energy. LED lights are MUCH cheaper all around. The main drawback of energy expense and higher start up costs have been reduced.

The simplest system is the kratky system which is just any container with the nutrient solution, and you just let it grow. You do have to check the pH and EC (electric conductivity) meter but I think it was just 20 bucks for the cheap ones which gives a ballpark, and handy for testing well water as well.

If you have a chemistry or biology background it is probably easier to comprehend then for the average person. You are growing plants without soil, but the plant still has the same requirements as growing with soil. It can work backwards as well, learning what the ideal growing conditions are, then try to create those in the soil. In the soil however, has a lot more guessing what is actually going on, because there is a whole soil ecosystem.

you have a greenhouse to help control the environment for more ideal growing conditions, hydroponics is just another step to providing that environment, but it doesn’t have some of the soil borne issues you can also create in a greenhouse.

I don’t think it is one or the other. They complement each other.

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#404

You =might= be interested in aquaponics with the ultrasonic stuff. This is what ordered:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806005305264.html?

If the amazon description is right for the board they only draw 3 watts. Which greatly reduces the power. The small pump I was looking is 35 watts. But i can’t vouch for the quality or effectiveness of the product. And you need backups, the ceramic disks are prone to breaking. and this board isn’t waterproof, but still it is only like 10 bucks. They do sell floating waterproof ones for like 2 dollars. But for a power backup it is pretty simple and cheap to get a 10,000w usb battery for a cell phone.
This is the floating one, but it says it draws 5w, so that is kind of what makes me think, the amazon desc might not be quite right.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806408023061.html

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#405

WARNING!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFMVs1pgAi0

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#406

I just find all cow manure suspect.

I made sure my cousin who tends our hay field to never use GrazeOn. Our field has never really needed herbicides, we just bush hog once a year to kill off any saplings and it works fine. Ever since we started seeding fescue real heavy it’s become even less of an issue.

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#407

I think the guy in the Deep South Homestead channel said he couldn’t use the area he manured for 4 years. Here is one I only recently became aware of. Other’s keep popping up as well.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41370-024-00643-4

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#408

I don’t know. the half life at max is 990 days in water sediment systems. I am a bit skeptical. I just have seen too many video’s trying to capitalize on the latest trend. They don’t have something else going on like salt damage like this guy.

Or one guys plants looks like it had mosiac virus.

Comquat is another pyradine family chemical but different then Grazon.

But this is what the EPA study concluded for Grazon. I just quoted the residual half-life.

"In aquatic systems, the primary route of degradation is photolysis, where a laboratory experiment yielded a half-life of 0.6 days. In addition to CO2, oxamic and malonamic acid were identified as major degradates. Aminopyralid was stable to direct hydrolysis and in anaerobic sediment-water systems. In aerobic sediment-water systems, degradation proceeded slowly, with observed total system half-lives of 462 to 990 days. The degradation resulted in the formation of non-extractable residues and no other major products.
Under aerobic conditions, degradation of aminopyralid in five different soils resulted in the production of CO2 and non-extractable residues. Half-lives ranged from 31.5 to
533.2 days in 5 soils. For risk assessment purposes, EPA used a half-life of 103.5
days.
Aminopyralid photolyzed moderately slowly on a soil surface. The half-life was 72 days and CO2, non-extractable residues and small amounts of acidic volatiles were the degradates.

Two field dissipation studies were performed (in California and Mississippi). The results indicate that aminopyralid is likely to be non-persistent and relatively immobile in the field. Half-lives of 32 and 20 days were determined, with minimal leaching below the 15 to 30 cm soil depth."
"

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#409

I guess he was just confused.

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#410

More details here on the new phase of The War Against Small Scale Foods Making:

Or if you easterners would prefer our water wars out here in the West; come from the dry sides to the west wet-sides.
Actually it is all about just as Stalin applied it . . . social control. Via the stomachs to enforce compliances. With hard working get-ahead individuals painted as the evil against the body collective. “The People”.
S.U.

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#411

That was weird, he said they sent it to like 25 farmers which doesn’t seem like a wide scale thing. Apparently they reversed it sort of anyway, just in time for the Sunday News because there is still pending litigation.

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#412

Detail read this article.
The policy change instituted last year in 2023 and set go big-time in April of this year was not reversed.
A department stay-delay in further implementing until the court case is settled in Federal Court. And that stay was not Court ordered. They lost nothing but a little time.
It will take these individual small dairy-folk thousands of dollars to continue to pursue thier case.
All just a phase in The Game. Just as the fellow said in the article I put up.
Trial-try first on a limited basis to test out reactions blowback.
Maybe that forced wave will have to reel back for another run up later.
A Tide change is a thing that occurs over time.

All under the guise that we are too stupid to be able to handle safely our own foods production. Best left to moneyed degreed experts.
F’em. Every step of their Progressive Ways.

In a real actual world justice, your organization goes-astray; over-steps; and real heads should roll.
After Pearl Harbor an Admiral and General were removed. Fair/Unfair or not.
The Boeing Aircraft now upper management heads rolling.
Oregons idiotic $63,000,000 loss Health Care roll out. Cost that appointed Czar who said he could make it happen. Cost the man supposed in charge of that appointee his Governorship.
This is done a lot in College Sports coaching. The most expensive of public paid “employees” in both the States of Oregon and Washington. He/she only gets 2-3 losing seasons before thier heads are chopped. Them under contract still getting payed by “The Public”. The Game. A class looking out for themselves at the expenses of us non-degreed.
Steve Unruh

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#413

That is reversed, sort of, with pending litigation. :slight_smile:

While I kind of agree it is seemingly a nanny state issue. It is also a bit more complex, because of the water rights and usage then I am used to dealing with. Even in the east the water rights are starting to heat up. But the nitrate in the groundwater issue has been around for a very long time around the great lakes, and along mississippi waterway for run off fertilizer which the claim is that is causing the dead spot in the gulf.

Water is part of the reason why I hammer on soil health because healthy soil absorbs water and slows down runoff. It is also one of the reasons for trying to use RE instead of thermal electric power plants since they can were using up to 20gallon of water per kwh produced, it is lower now, but energy production still uses a significant amount of water. It is like 3-5 gallons of water per gallon of gasoline and 5 gallons per kwh of thermoelectric power.

I think in Michigan we are required to have animals like 50ft from any open water, and there is a minimum distance that you can’t mow. This stops the nitrates and other chemicals and bacteria from getting into the surface water. The state does come around and check to make sure farms aren’t polluting, but I believe law applies to everyone.

TBH, there is quite a bit of stupidity everywhere. It isn’t necessarily because the people are stupid, there is just so much knowledge to process, and even if you do know a better way to do something, it isn’t necessarily easier or cheaper.

I will agree, that some things have gone to far, and there needs to be more emphasis on personal responsibility rather then litigation to make everything dummy proof safe. Simply because people don’t learn to keep an eye out and aren’t required to think.

1 Like
#414

Didnt know where to put this so l decided here, thugh its more of an tip&trick.

I seldom use those fancy popular magic garden trick but this one actualy works fine. You boil up a starch slurry and let cool, then mix carrot seeds in. Cut a hole in the corner of the bag and squeeze the slurry on the ground. Seeds will hidrate well, and the slurry keeps them moist untill it disolves/rots away and its easy to adjust even planting space.

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I must admit however, being a wery visual person with good imagination, that performing the task of squirting this stuff on the ground is a bit disturbing to me :smile:

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#415

Thanks for the image K. I think I’ll skip breakfast. Carrots are my least favorite thing to grow. I only grow them in containers with potting mix mixed with weed free compost. :face_vomiting:

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#416

Same. Or at least it used to be so. We tryed the traditional method for our late carrots, sowing on wheat. And it gve exelent resaults.

Here is a pic of this years youth pokingout under the wheat plants

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Sown mid winter over the snowy wheat feald

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#417

Btw, talking about self sufficiancy… today l put our donkey to work the first time. She is young and untrained so l spent a lot of time training last couple of weeks.

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And yes l know the potato shoots are streched… too much moisture. The main crop seed is better, this is just an early one

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#418

Since a fair number of folks seem to grow potatoes. I ran across this research, looking for something else. Basically it just says that using Azospirillium lipoferum, reduced early blight in potatoes. Azospirillium is family of nitrogen fixing bacteria, that colonizes in the plant root zone, but doesn’t infect and create nodules like rhizobium bacteria in legumes. There is also plenty of evidence to suggest that it does get hosted in biochar, but not from this particular paper. Azospirillium is naturally occuring across the world.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261219420302829?via%3Dihub

Azospirillium Brasilense is far more studied and popular of the family, and more widely available. This is the only product I found with the A. Lipoferum. And it also contains pencillium bilaii, which I believe breaks down phosporous.

It isn’t super expensive after you mix it with the water for spraying.

And quite frankly, I am not sure why they do foliar applications in these studies.

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#419

I’ve been working my way through these video’s. I recommend them. Mostly under 7 minutes each covering a specific area of soil biology. I guess only interesting to garden geeks. No blah blah blah.

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#420

It seems good so far and good explanations. It is a really nice explanation of some of the basic soil chemistry and how various amendments affect it.

It is kind of weird watching it, because it is pretty sterile experiments relative to what I have been watching and reading for the last 10 or so years. It doesn’t mean they aren’t valid, or he is doing anything wrong. And he does mention the affects of microbial activity. When you add the microbial activity in, it opens up a whole other world and a completely different and massively more complex perspective. He is just giving a less complex maybe more easily understandable view from strictly a nutrient availability perspective. :slight_smile:

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