Steve is like that guy that always shows up at 5pm to the local bar, he has a nameplate in his Spot on the bar.
“He came with the building” is another term I use.
5 Likes
Here’s an older one now, been maybe lost back in the dust of time.
Yeah, Cody . . . I sneezed and it woke me up. Staggered around and found my way back.
A lookie see inside then a firing up to stable. Then a generator run by Engineer775.
He previously got a lot of experiences with a Ben Peterson larger all SS Offgrdder system.
An older Ford pickup. A larger all-farm powering electrical generator. Even his Harley got fuel fed with that one.
Those earlier video’s on his channel still.
Enjoy
Steve unruh
6 Likes
Some of the earliest woodgas content I had come across was engineer775, and I have followed along with many of his projects from woodgas, solar, micro hydro, batteries ect. Enjoy his content and never fail to learn something. Wish he could have made the Harley do some real riding though
7 Likes
Well fellows this is my started topic so by DOW convention I get to broaden talk a bit.
I have just received two e-mail/PM’s from new members who have come onto the DOW looking for help with their small-engine WOODGAS generator systems now withdrawing.
They feel un-welcomed on the DOW now.
Pressured to give up thier goals of raw woodgasing their systems.
Pressured to just go with charcoal instead.
That makes now #9, and #10 fellows who have told me they left the DOW because it is charcoal only for small engines.
On just this topic I put up 6,7 systems DIY who do woodgas to their satisfaction raw wood for their personal electrical generators. A wasted effort on my part.
10 years I have reasoned, rationalized, fought this biased creep to black hands on the DOW.
Tried to remain cheerful and “inclusive”.
No More.
Now I will just link them up to alternative support exchanges.
Steve Unruh
2 Likes
Well i don’t know who these 10 people are that are so sensitive they cant listen to some advice from people with small engines running on charcoal that they have to run away and go hide from us nasty dirty black hand ganged men , maybe they should just grow a pair and learn to just go with there own gut feelings as to what will work for them , its a personal choice for all of us to decide what will work best for us , i have not seen anyone from the dark side bully or made others feel that they are stupid for choosing a wood over charcoal system , I don’t remember telling anyone they should build a charcoal over a wood gas system , BUT if i did then as far as i am concerned the reasons for it would have made sense to me .
I must admit that the past few weeks i am scared to even type the word charcoal incase someone bursts out crying .
4 Likes
Right there with you Dave. Why anyone would feel unwelcome here escapes me. I have never seen anything but helpfulness and good will. I think Ashley mentioned that that is rare on these kinds of forums. I know it has been in my experience. Like many here, my introduction to wood gas was from the early 80’s MEN project. For me, at that time, it was too complex for me to devote much time to. Had I know that there were simpler kinds of systems accomplishing the same end results I would have been committed (and probably should be now) much earlier. Anyway, it’s all charcoal. Just depends on how you get it there. If I suggest charcoal as an alternative it’s because I know anyone can get a five gallon metal bucket and with a few hand tools they can made a Simple Fire and get a small engine to run. There are many steps from there to running a fully functioning power system or vehicle but there is nothing like that first minor success to instill in a person the confidence they will require to go on to bigger and better things.
1 Like
On the flip side to that, there are people that have Already started on a plain wood gasifier and just want help getting the gremlins out of the system.
I’m just as guilty at suggesting charcoal when it gets tough.
If they want our two cents as to what Style of gasifier they should build, they would let us know. Some people also can’t dedicate the time to making charcoal or don’t live in an area that supports that lifestyle.
I had the same reaction coming in, Information Overload. I lurked for a few months just scanning through as much as I could before trying a topic of my own.
I can see the issue on the Newcomer side, they’ve already built most of a gasifier, or just a gasifier with a few hiccups, and then a lot just say “Oh, well for small engines this is the best go with charcoal” and then they have to learn a new Meta of gasification.
You can never gauge how people will read what you’ve typed, the human brain likes to attribute mood with syntax aka “overthink reading between the lines”. But we can’t control how people read obviously.
Some people can’t scrap the project they’ve started on and build another one, guys like Mark Cunningham in the Philippines have a hard time getting certain materials. They don’t like being told all those hours of work were spent on a mediocre idea. I can’t help but feel like I would have been in that camp if I’d built something before finding the Forum.
I think the Charcoal guys including the Switch Hitters like me need to get the word out on charcoal power on places like YouTube. Maybe Charcoal Updraft can replace the FEMA in terms of the “Training Wheels” gasifier. But I also think someone should design a Free to Download PDF for a Raw Wood system as well, for the looky-loos that are skeptical about spending 20 dollars on a book.
If I was a better Draft Artist I would have a two system booklet, one system Charcoal and how to manage that, and one being Raw Wood and how to manage that. Like a Devil’s Advocate kind of booklet. Anyways I’m rambling now.
Lead by example, show off your builds and let the visual evidence be your testament to the designs. People have to see it work, and even a FEMA can run an engine.
I still have issues with drifting while answering questions, but I’m working on only answering what’s asked.
Edit: Just to add one last thing, I know everybody on here just wants to help, and wants the new people to succeed at wood power, but some people have to learn on their own and see for themselves.
6 Likes
If you can make and operate a raw wood gasifier effectively you have proven your skills Cody
But most people just can’t sit there and be an attentive system operator in a stationary application
That’s why you drive on wood
Open roads fresh air
Driving on wood is probably the best personal expressing ingenuity, craftsmanship, ecology and self reliance all rolled into one I can think of.
Find me one person who can point a finger at this and say it’s bad?
But a stationary plant is not the same thing
It’s boring to baby sit not many people are impressed
It’s noisy there are odours and it’s unsightly
Stationary will always be the ugly step sister of gasification
All these YouTube attempts to generate power and money for the builders just try and put lipstick on it
Interesting I am the only one not a premium member posting in this thread.
A thread not about builds but rather objectives.
Maybe thats an indication not that they were scared off but they were never serious about it in the first place…
The price of gas and utilities is high right now.
Thats generating a lot of interest by people who are trying to not spend money…
2 Likes
10 Years ago, I wish someone would have slapped me up side the head and told me to pursue charcoal instead of the path I took. I would not say I wasted 8 years of development, but we would have been more successful and way farther ahead in the charcoaling process development. Everything happens for a reason and I guess I had to learn those things before getting here today. We need to shed better light on charcoal and break the myths, deceptions and misconceptions of both technologies. I will stand very firm on charcoal for small engines. No one has been where I have and I dont want to see people invest time and money in a technology I know will not be successful or meet expectorations at this scale. Physics is physics and small scale systems can not get around this without advanced design and automation. A new comer achieving this on a first build attempt? Yeah I dont think so. If those small machines have not made tar, you have not ran it long enough. At some point it will I promise.
5 Likes
Its not a waste of time.
You learned a lot.
I remember when I was working on the fluid bed roaster at a smelter complex.
Its purpose was to take a solid and extract as a gas impurities using heat and oxygen.
A completely stupid useless thing to me on a personal level and then I heard about syngas made in large plants blowing oxygen through biomass.
MIND BLOWING!!!
Can this be scaled?
NO IT CANT
I know about about fluid beds now.
Still kind of useless information but its dam interesting.
Just unsightly as hell in a suburban back yard.
Everyone wants to do something I think that’s important.
I did a lot of things I thought were important, I had ideas that I thought might make the world a better place perhaps for just a handful of people.
Gasification of biomass for fuel, its such a seductive idea that sounds so simple.
But you create so many Franken brides you try and marry off to your ecological ideals.
Now one wants them, their ugly impractical creatures.
Wind ad water are beautiful.
People like to watch a water wheel or a gently turning wind mill.
A solar array can be made aesthetically pleasing.
A wood gas powered car or truck is almost an art car in a way.
People want to see it touch it ride in it…
A biomass cogen plat is kind of like a do it yourself garbage incinerator lol
No one wants it in the back yard lol
I do thing think the applications for green coal are far wider than just power generation,
It might be cool one day to build stoves and buy processed wood instead of charcoal
Its a question of costs scales of application acceptance …
4 Likes
Hi Matt, I respect your work and effort in developing gasifiers, I agree with you that charcoal is an easier and simpler solution for small systems, but I think wood would work as well. Small gasifiers have large heat losses, it is necessary to add a lot of fresh air, which burns the fuel, in order to reach the temperature for gasification and reduction - cracking. Here, it is necessary to return every calorie of heat to the process, preheat the fresh air with the output gas, reflect radiation, good insulation of the entire gasifier except for the conical condensation,…
6 Likes
Oh believe me I get it. I didnt say it could not be done Ive done it. But all these things add complexity and cost. A typical new comer is not going to just design a build a machine and be successful the first time. Then you have the flow issues, Im sorry but a small scale system simply will not flow without a grate and hopper agitator. Even then the gas energy density will still fluctuate.
Why go through all that when you can make simple charcoal gasifier that will work and not need the complexity. Most new comers also think they are going to run a Harbor Freight chipper for this. What are they going to run it on? Gasoline? The gasifier? Haha been there and done it. That chipper will eat way more fuel than just making charcoal in the first place.
Besides all that you are not losing anything with charcoal. That is a huge misconception because when you do a very thorough analysis. You lose just as much energy with raw wood gasification as you do charcoal. Fuel process equipment and losses in the gasification process will come to the same as the charcoaling process. You have to factor in the charcoal gasification process is much more efficient, you get energy back with water injection heat reclaim. Net fuel volumes of both fuels are not equal charcoal is by far more energy dense.
4 Likes
I wasn’t going to go there but you open the can lets watch them worms wiggle.
Chips don’t flow well, that why people cut blocks.
Chips REALLY do not flow well in a stationary machine.
Rumble down the road in a mobile application and fuel flows much better.
3 Likes
Nothing flows well in a stationary system not even wood pellets. This is due to the restriction of the reactor and bridging issues. Anytime there is a bridge there will be tar to follow it.
3 Likes
If you can get some vibration in there from the engine.
Run a steel rod from the engine’s frame to the gasifier that makes a huge difference.
Chips still suck as stationary fuel…
Blocks are better.
Doug Williams made a special grate in his.
You tape the bottom and it would push the grate up and knock the bridge from the bottom.
You ever mess with that system???
I thought about making an electric grate knocker with a solenoid.
Trouble is the more you knock it the more slip char you have.
Its a good way to break up a bridge however.
Another add to the Youtube DIY WOODGAS electrical genrators systems: Stephen Abbadessa, Northern Self-Reliance. And he only does chipped raw fuel wood systems
This one eight years ago:
CC enable to read him against the background traffic noises.
At 11:15 he say his system really needed him to get done with his automatic mixer development.
A one year later fully self powered starting up to electrical generator running video, with an added hearth air jacket. A different, smaller, electrical generator.
In his 36 woodgas videos on his channel he shows ways to make the chipped wood fuel. Shows his completed auto-mixer.
Go ahead and pray to your god of charcoal as the only way for small systems. Mine is wood. The real universal.
Just becouse some of you fellows have stumbled small engine woodgasing for all of the variety of reasons does not mean I; and others cannot.
We can.
Steve Unruh
8 Likes
It gets down to this… 25% building a gasifier correctly Wood or Charcoal. 75% on learning how to operate a gasifier correctly Wood or Charcoal.
When you are drive on a wood or charcoal gasifier you are with the gasifer as it operates. A stationary gasifer is differentT you will walk away to do work on other things. HERE is the big difference in both operations here.
Now with automation this will help you walk away for longer periods of time. A turn a key and it starts up automatic mode can be built it has been done.
It still comes down to the 75% of the operator knowlege in like maintaince work on the gasifier to keep it in good running order, and reloading it to keep it running.
Now we know you can run a small engine off a big WK Gasifier. Wayne K. has shown it can be done and others. It is not hard to do. Is it practical not really for long term. But for a emergency short term? Okay
yes.
Now we know you can run big or small vehicles off of Charcoal gasifiers they proved this in WW2 and it is being done to this day.
So whats the catch here in one gasifier or the other. (Wood Preparation), making wood chunks for a wood gasifier, or making charcoal for a charcoal. Where you live ( the weather) or type of wood, bamboo scraps you have available is another factor too.
Some on this site have used only charcoal gasification and they love it for their reasons, wonderful they are not using as much gasoline or diesel fuels to generate or drive a vehicle. Then there are some who have used only Wood gasification and they love it for their reasons, this is also wonderful they are not using as much gasoline or diesel to generate or drive a vehicle or heat a home.
Then there are to ones who do both. Again wonderful same reasons.
The point is not having to buy gasoline or diesel to run equipment or heat a home is the goal here. Right. This is why we call the site DOW.com and not DOG.com (Drive On Gasoline). Lol.
The other factor is a big one that needs to be talked about is the persons skills level on building and metal fabucation and the equimpment they have to build things. If you have no welding skills then you might go with a no weld or very little weld construction and have or pay some to do the welding for you. This will restrict you on what you can build. We have those who have done this and they are generating or driving or even cooking on syngas now.
So lets keep helping one and another with the knowlege that we have in a way that will help them. This makes good sense to me, and I hope it does to everyone else. For the good of DOW.com and its members.
Bobmac
11 Likes
I am trying really hard to be objective and not get into a argument with ANYONE , but why cant we just drop this bullshit over wood versus charcoal systems without charcoal there be no wood gasifiers and without wood there would be no charcoal gasifiers , let all who ask for help be the judge as to what type of system will work for them , remember most people are coming on here because they heard they can run engines on “woodgas” not charcoal gas , but are they not one of the same things ? i mean your wood gasifiers turn wood to charcoal and then make gas , so maybe its charcoal gas ?
OK so in fairness and to show there is no hard feelings at all i would like to propose a challenge .
Why don’t we arrange a challenge a very friendly informative challenge with pre made fuel brought from there home and get 1 , 2 or 3 charcoal gasifiers and 1, 2 .or 3 wood gasifiers at Argos and have a endurance run , lets see what system runs with as little to no fuss at say oh making power , mowing the ground or i don’t know your all clever people you decide what ever your needs there might be , maybe make a cook stove .
On a personal note i am still learning i am still building systems that will work on a mix of ALL fuels its just i am not so fast these days , apart from in my head of course i can build a system in seconds up there , until 4 weeks ago Brian and i kept our hobby to ourselves because most people that came to the yard over the years have just laughed at us getting all dirty playing they nearly all said if we want power we flick a switch on the wall or if you need charcoal go to the servo they sell it for $20 a bag up there ! Well about 5 weeks ago that all changed i was asked if a group could come to the yard on a Sunday morning so i could show them how they could all make power and be a little less reliant on power company’s should they decide to flick the switch , they also have a group that help people with no gardening skills on how to grow essential crops on community scale this group even includes farmers and land owners that have given space on there land for ordinary everyday working people .
Anyway that Sunday morning i took to the yard a few bits off my system like the blower and a small in line filter housing as i knew we had enough bits laying around that i couple possibly throw something together for them .
We they turned up about 15 people , i have no speaking skills in fact most Aussies cant even understand my broad English Brummy accent ,and so rather than do a lot of talking i got a 25 litre tin that had been used for linseed oil it had a clamp lid and a 3/4 threaded bung near the bottom and so i used that as a start to show them and within 1 hour YES 1 hour i had placed a nozzle in the bottom and a hose barb in the top and i was showing them a flare Brian then went over to a pile of scrap lawn mowers and he pulled on the starters till one fired with a squirt of eather ( its called start you bastard here ) and then he brought the mower over and we placed the flare hose onto the carb once we took air filter off and ran the mower for them all too see , i’m telling you they were all impressed at how easy it all was and so thats what has been going on here for the past 3 Sundays i have had groups of around 15 people turning up to see how to turn a drum of wood into charcoal while they go off and do something else and again how to build a gasifier from scrap parts ,
Anyway Excuse the long rambling on i just do not understand why anyone would be that bothered if someone prefers wood over charcoal or the other way round to me its all the same its one way or the other full stop , and if it upsets people that much then fine i can move on and preach my words else ware adios amigo’s .
But why the hell should i .
Dave
9 Likes
I swear Dave. I didn’t even notice you had an accent. Of course you haven’t had cause to use words like flavour or Zed. Everybody knows that just ain’t right. No need for us to go into segregation mode. Hell, Eddie Ramos burns nut shells and Wayne has threatened to use dead cats. What you are doing on Sundays was always what I hoped to accomplish. To prove to interested people that they do not have to be indentured to the power companies and BP or Exxon. Unfortunately I have only met with shoulder shruggers and I have pretty much given up on getting anyone else to cast off their chains. What your and Dave’s demonstration proved is that folks with basic skills and simple materials can make power and run an engine. Of course they will have to do a lot more research and trial and error before they can call themselves Producer Gassers but just knowing it’s a possibility is enough to light a fire under some of them. The future is no place for tweeters and Meta morons. It will require builders and obtainium innovators. There is room for all of us here.
7 Likes
Without gas engines… no gasoline retailers…
Its all biomass.
I remain committed to the idea of a virtuous circle or green carbon based fuels operated by carbon based lifeforms
That is a really excellent idea.
3 Likes