Life Goes On COVID 19 Discussion

Unfortunatly I hate to say that FEAR seems to be driving the Covid-19 Decisions Boats. With a secondary factor of ARROGANCE.

The FEAR FACTOR was certainly the driver behind our public schools and public libraries shutting down before a lock down decision was declared statewide.
And now after repeated survey results saying the 80-90% majority of parents and student children wanting in-class education to resume in any form, with any resrtictions . . .
the fear of the minority parents that will rule.
Their lever being the teachers union and the personal and legal fears drive top-down Superintendent of Education.
No reasoning with another persons fears.

He too is up for reelection in November.
One of his two registered opponent’s declares for opening backup our schools based on CDC guidelines.
Many I know intend to now opt out of the public educational system for private schools or formal approved home educational systems.

And that will lead into public school systems tax-revolt. By the percentages the majority of my local abd state taxes go into public schools.
I’ll admit now my wife and I, the products of, always previously stong supporters of free public education are quite a bit bitter now paying for empty buildings resricted playgrounds, and teachers&administrators NOT teaching and administrating based on fears, not best futures.

So, see this Covid-19 cannot help but being political.

For the dumb-assed arrogant who refuse to mask wear your route is to now wear the better N-95 and PM 2.5 masks now availble.
Get very scrupulous hand santizing before and after. In and out of buildings and new areas.
And when commented on by the non-mask wearers I my mask-to-their-nose say, “I will live. You will die. Then my vote will count with twice.”
And if I’m feeling paticulary peckish, will say, “I am an old man from the AIDS, herpis, liver diseases and gingivitis tGeneration. Wanna’ Euro style :kiss: greet?”
S.U.

4 Likes

Garry; How North Americans don’t believe in science??? The media has lied to us so much that we don’t know what os a lie and what is truth. In our search for truth we have accepted other questionable ‘‘truths’’. TpmC

8 Likes

There is substantial truth in Trump’s observations about the fake news. Remember the marketing of the Iraq war #1, and Iraq war #2? Hill and Knowlton ad agency and the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador acting the role in the hearing, shedding tears about the babies taken from stolen incubators, dying on the cold floor? Or Colin Powell seriously talking about ICBM capability and 6 months to nuclear attack on NYC, mobile anthrax labs in school buses? That was fake news. Virtually the entire US news system failed or was complicit in peddling those idiotic stories. Why? Vast fortunes were made from those “wars”. Corporations made those unprecedented profits, nothing is more profitable for the rich than a war. The mainstream media is part of corporate entities, they sell.

Sadly the same applies to healthcare, unbelievable profits there and a vast failure to deliver services, but profits are the bottom line, so out comes the spin and marketing.

Same applies to the growing climate disaster. Like the old detective shows would say, if you want to make sense of a crime, follow the money. The same marketing and propaganda is being used against the north American population that was used to extend the profits of the tobacco industry.

So no wonder people are left confused about what is true. But here’s the simple way - if 99% of scientists, or doctors, etc agree on a body of facts and recommendations, it’s a pretty safe bet those well studied people are correct.

1 Like

The problem with today’s ‘‘science’’ is computer models that they want to use as concrete facts, so far their track records aren’t very reliable.

6 Likes

But apparently it’s quite respectable when the wealthy toy with the stock markets based on their models, and when they come up short 14 trillion the public bails them out no questions or even public consult? And which models? I seem to recall predictions of ICU being overwhelmed in areas that left public health without direction, and an estimate of 200,000 dead by fall. What’s the tally now?

I will sooner trust epidemiologists and those inviolved in public health as a livelihood to make sound judgements on such issues than politicians acting on personal unqualified whims and notions of liberty.

The rest of the western world aimed to keep fatalities low enough to not exhaust medical care and keep the society going generally. These approaches are only secondarily aimed at individual health outcomes, but better than directing the public against the well established common sense of science.

1 Like

You should definitely be concerned about the accuracy of climate change computer models. Because over the last few decades the inaccuracy you speak of has consistently been overly conservative models on the part of the scientists. The models have consistently proven to underestimate the severity of the problem.
Here are a couple of articles on the topic if you are interested.


From the second article.
The first paper is “Time to refine key climate policy models,” a commentary in Nature Climate Change by Alexander Barron, a former Environmental Protection Agency and congressional staffer (on the Waxman-Markey bill) who is now at Smith College.

He notes that a relatively small set of models — “a handful of computational general equilibrium (CGE) models, sector-specific models, or hybrids like the US Energy Information Administration (EIA)’s National Energy Modeling System (NEMS)” — tends to set expectations and policymaking in the US. And there are reasons to believe those models are systematically underestimating climate change’s economic impacts and overstating the costs of mitigating it.

So yes there are reasons to be concerned about the accuracy of climate models but once you dig into the errors it only make you realize how bad the problem is.

1 Like

Better avoid his “substantial truth”

Yup, universal truth… follow who’s making profit…

It is very difficult not getting “biassed” these day’s…
So, let the “deeds” speak for itself…

yes, computer models are a line of expectations, drawn upon information available…
Statistic data obtained will show, afterwards, if your model is accurate, better or worse than anticipated…

indeed, just dig in the covid numbers…
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

and in airpolution during covid lockdowns, ad the lesser numbers of accidents…
study the re-bounce of infections and the re-rise…

Now, for all the “nay sayers”, what does it need to convince you to be less careless ?

If the virus would look and smell like pigpoop ?

Yes, freedom’s… Freedom starts with having respect for the wellbeing of others…
Words hurt, so choose them wisely
Bullets kill, so be so kind and don’t point your gun at me…

Be safe, stay healthy ya all…

5 Likes

Unfortunately unfettered greed popularized by the modern barrons of industry has over taken the USA. We now live in a very selfish society. I am positive that if the discussion about masks had been from the start how they lower your own person chances of catching the virus not about how the limit the spread from infected people the very same people who now protest their usage in the USA would be demanding everyone use them. Because they would demand that their own personal wellbeing be protected. Instead what they heard was you could help protect others and in our rugged individualism society that message falls on deaf ears.
Instead we now have an overwhelmed medical system in Texas which is sending highly contagious people home to die with their loved ones because they lack the facilities to care for these sick members of our community in their time of need. So lacking proper care facilities Texas is instead sending people home to expose their loved ones to the same virus that is literally killing them. It is being marketed as an act of compassion allowing people to die with their loved ones. Sounds like a act of disrespect for all involves to me. I would much rather live in a community which respects and protects the health and wellbeing of all citizens.

3 Likes

There are two fundamental points often ignored when referring to “the death toll from COVID-19.”

  • There is no evidence or proof offered by any scientist, pathologist, or virologist that confirms COVID-19 as the “cause” of death in the certification process.
  • An expanded definition of a “COVID-19 death” was enacted by the CDC on March 24th, to include probable cases. This conflates and clusters test results creating a source of both under and overestimation. “COVID-19 deaths are identified using a new ICD-10 code. When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death or when it is listed as a ‘probable’ or ‘presumed’ cause, it is coded as UO7.1 This can include cases with or without laboratory confirmation .” [emphasis added]

All deaths of patients with a linkage to COVID-19 are now classified as “COVID-19 deaths regardless of cause or underlying health issues that could have contributed to loss of life .” - Dr. Deborah Birx https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/05/27/rethinking-covid-19-mortality-statistics-14811

4 Likes

Thank you Al for this post.

1 Like

This latest exchange shows I believe the human natures crux of the current problem.

The insistence beliefs that if-only “that”/“them” bad-evil one percenters could be reined in, we could all march forward MOMs-arm-in-arm to a better, greater future.
In only a few current cases this may be true - like the now 3rd generation one-family rulers in North Korea.

Otherwise the current problems solutions are always simply individual a decisions and actions.
Says just grumpy old Steve Unruh?
Nope. All of the best of the written about humanists (true people lovers) for the last 2500 years.
Think about it.
You choose the better masks, and to hand sanitize. I’m off to the public sports park to bike ride with our girls. Masks and hand sanitizer. Third 90F full sunny days in a row. UV virus surfaces killing days.
Applied known science. Not hairy scary fear driven, huddled in-house.

That 21 year old “boy” eye damaged up near close to the riot fence in Portland? HE Chose to be there!
The city police? Chose to work in keep-it-weird Portland. Two blood family law officers chose not to work in social-progressive districts. Rural county sheriff. Small town cop.
Scratch a socialist and find not a want better for all, but someone very offended anyone else could ever have/be better than themselves.
That is Envy. Jealousy.
All good faith belief systems caution against envy/jealousy as much as richman’s greed and gluttony. Dammed yourself to unhappiness at either extreme.

Again. Personal choice in all things.
I have blood family got out of military service/Coast Guard service, and did go into Federal Agency service for the extended benefits.
They chose the Postal Service, Forest Service and the EPA. Services they could not be dragged into riot controls.

Choosing to live Rural and then most all of this human-desires; not-needs stuff drops out.

Oh. Except for the occasional destroyed roadside mailbox.
Yep. My third in the last 15 years. Whole day digging through the ballast rocks three days ago to re-post.
I locally live my beliefs.
This does rubs feathers to a occasional one percenter extremist.
Not a social media butterfly I am impossible to DOXXX.
S.U.

3 Likes

The unique thing about this time in north America has got to be that folks like Gwyneth Paltrow, and a host of others have found a broad environment in which to broadcast “alternate facts” and an endless list of pure demonstrable nonsense. The bottom line is that natural forces don’t care one bit what you convinced yourself was “alternately true”, or how you can explain it. They will just sort you out, without remorse and possibly without do overs.

Since when did denying scientific or medical consensus become a “thing”. As we all exchange our thoughts on devices so sophisticated that none of us could duplicate the technology given a million years…

Pretty simple to do the math on this business, and the math is clearly different between countries like Taiwan and the US.

I doubt this has much to do with love of freedom, every human on the planet loves their freedom. But we also have highway traffic laws, air traffic control, food safety standards, building codes, because there surely are idiots who make societal standards necessary.

2 Likes

Here is an update from the CDC, for anyone interested.


Link is here: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

So yeah, there is not the capacity to do tests and analyses on each person who dies while infected with COVID. But, really? There are huge spikes in expected deaths during a pandemic, and you wonder if they are really dying of COVID? Why else would we suddenly see spikes as high as 30-40% more people dying than we otherwise would? There has been a decline in excess deaths as cases declined through June, but another surge in cases is likely to lead to another spike in deaths (The 14 day trend of deaths is up 49% according to the NYT). Better treatment options will probably help, but I would bet that we will see another spike on this chart.

Help me understand what you think is going on here. What motive do the doctors, healthcare workers, and disease experts at the CDC have for fabricating extra deaths?

3 Likes

This conversation has gone ‘‘whack-o’’. I see words but the way they are put together makes no sense. TomC
Is anyone doing anything with wood gas???

2 Likes

Hi Carl,
Indeed, this is the only way to observe the reality of the pandemic…

Hi Tom,

I actually have a room full of woodgas, to check up on germination of any bacteria with rice products… ( no joke )
And another room testing the grinding to rice flour/powder in absence of oxygen but enriched with Co2 from gasification…

1 Like

Driving every day :grinning:

7 Likes

Mr. Wayne; Is that all there is to it? Just jump in the truck and drive all day? I know you have spent time chunking “tons” of wood. But what about periodic maintainence? Very little said about that— a check on the “heat sinks”. Have you ever had a hopper rust out? Carl Z went through several, I have had a couple (and I haven’t driven as much as some of you). I’d like to hear out of all those who copied your gasifier, how many are driving daily, periodicly, once in a while, or given up. I’d like to hear from others as to their exprience after spending all the time to build a gasifier. Maybe some new ideas or changes they have come up with. I’m sure it isn’t all peaches and water melons down there. TomC

5 Likes

Good morning Mr. Tom .

There is a little work first before I can drive off. I must light the gasifier and fill it with wood . If Iet the truck set longer than 4-6 hours I may have to light again but most of the time I light just one time a day .

But what about periodic maintenance?

Yes the truck and gasifier must be maintained. It takes me about 5 min to dump my ashes and I dump my hopper condensate on the fly . Just a WAG I think for every 20- 30 hours of driving an hour would be needed for maintenance.

Very little said about that— a check on the “heat sinks”.

Often I will burn the wood down low enough I can see the heat sinks and it seems they are holding up well .

Have you ever had a hopper rust out?

Yes , It seems the upper portion of the hopper is the quickest to rust out . I build my hopper in two sections so that I only have to replace the part that rusted . I could us thicker material for the hopper but it would add weight and conduct heat less . Also I can build the hopper section fairly easy. I might mention I have never had a gasifier housing ( drum ) to rust out .

I’m sure it isn’t all peaches and water melons down there. TomC

Along with any peaches and water melon comes a lot of cornbread and beans :grinning:

9 Likes

H Mr Tom I agree with you. I created this thread so that the discussion of this topic could continue and those who don’t want to be involved could ignore the discussion easier since it is not on the life goes on thread.
Personally I have not been doing anything with wood gas in the past week and a half because I have been in Corvallis Oregon helping Dr Larry to rebuild a deck of his that had rotted out. I will post more pictures about it later on the life goes on thread. No worries I have a few woodgas projects to do when i get home I’ll post all about them. :smile::smile:

8 Likes

Tom, maybe you missed them but I made a couple posts on woodgas :smile: :smile: :smile:

4 Likes