Tone, you are not only building new gasifiers, I believe you are writing a new interpretation of gasification. 
do you think that the enlargement of the reaction zone (3 level of air injection) is made possible because the heat losses are reintroduced into the gasifier?
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Thierry, Iām just trying to adapt the gasifier to natural peoces for converting wood into useful gas. The latest findings on the gasification of coal, which actually takes place in the plasma at 4000Ā°C, show that it is actually necessary to add oxygen to the lower part in order to maintain the plasma (fire), which converts the coal into gas, and in this plasma, the other tar conversion reactions take place gases and water vapor into a rich powerful gas to power the engine. I will again repeat the well-known thought, āall conversions in the gasifier take place in the gaseous stateā.
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Hi tone, just checking temperatures here at 4000 CĀ° this is 7232 FĀ° how can any metals survive these temperatures in the fire tube / nozzle / restriction or grate area. At 4000 FĀ° it is still at 2204.44 CĀ° . I have only gotten my grate temperatures up to 1760 FĀ° or 960 CĀ° and I think I was over pulling my WK Gasifier because power drop off and my drop box temperatures started climbing fast.
At 4000 CĀ° any minerals in any organic matter will form and come out of the carbon. Being clinkers as ash or metals, or am I missing something here in 4000 CĀ° temperature? Is this the very inside central part of the white hot part of the lobe of charcoal in the fire tube that gets this hot?
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Mr. Bob, I posted the link to the properties of carbon in a neighboring thread, the fact is that carbon is gasified at a really high temperature and thus free carbon atoms are formed, which can bond with oxygen or hydrogen, probably these temperatures are right on the surface of glowing coal, or inside the coal, and then they drop rapidly, probably below 1000Ā°C, as they are surrounded by water vapor, nitrogen and tar gases. The plasma of CO and free carbon atoms with a temperature of 4000 Ā°C, which comes from pieces of coal, breaks the molecules of water and tar gas and thus synthesis gas is produced, and the temperature drops a lot. If there are enough oxygen and hydrogen atoms, all gaseous carbon atoms are consumed, otherwise they cool down further through the system and are deposited as soot. Thatās how I try to explain the essential reactions that take place in the gasifier and adapt the construction accordingly.
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So when you say carbon you are talking about wood charcoal and not mined hard coal carbon ore. I just did not realize how hot it really gets inside the white hot lobe area of the charcoal or on the surface area of the charcoal. No wonder we get a huge quick temperature rise spike when the hopper runs out of wood or charcoal with the heat radiating up into the hopper. Thanks for making this more clear to me of what is really happening in this hell fire area of the firetube and the importance of drawing the heat off the firetube wall and shielding and insulation that is needed to protect the metals in this area.
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Hmm l must admit lm sceptical about this theory. But l cant proove or disproove it.
Maybee let me just say that in chemistry, gases can react with solid particles just fine, there is no need for both reactants to be gases or liquids. The gaseous molecules just need enaugh kinetic energy (activation energy) to overcome the repelling forces and āknock offā a atom from the solid reactant. If we look at gasification particulary, at room temperature, oxigen atoms are slow and just bounce off the surface of the carbon particle. Like pingpong balls off of the wall. When we increase the temperature the āpingpong ballsā get faster and faster and when we reach about 700C they are fast enaugh to knock off a āpeace of the wallā.
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One more thought, I use small bores for air supply, so the amount of air that enters a certain area is determined, small bores also cause swirling and mixing of gases, but they have one drawback, the start-up and heating of the gasifier takes a little longer.
Kristjan, I respect your expertise, but what exactly is the temperature of a substance? Isnāt temperature the speed of circulation of electrons around the nuclei of atoms? When the speeds of these electrons increase, the distance between the nuclei also increases, the substance expands and when the substance heats up enough, the bonds begin to break and the possibility of forming new compounds arises, I donāt know exactly how carbon behaves, but for sure the oxidation temperature carbon very high,ā¦
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No Tone, the speed of an electron is āstableā. Actualy it has no speedā¦ lt gets wery complicated when we look in to the atom. The quantum world is misterious and strangeā¦ for example, it is possible for a electron to be at different places at the same time, called superposition. Also the electron does not travel around the nucleus on a rail like like shown in the clasical depiction of a atom. In reality they ālookā more like this
And each of these lines represent the most likely place where a electron can be found and in theory it can be anywhere but then the probability gets exponentaly smaller.
The electron doesent realy spin around, it is in a superposition in a orbitale at all places at the same time, but for the ease of imagination, its usualy depicted as if they spin around.
My knolidge about this is limited and rusty, plus this is about where chemistry ends and phisics start, so we only got basics at school.
Temperature thugh is the kinetic energy of a whole atom or molecule. Speed of a gaseous molecule or vibration of a solid. And when the vibration is too hard (temperature high) the bonds between molecules break. The substance becomes liquid or gas.
With carbon, the bond is extremely strong. Each atom is connected by 4 others by 4 bonds so its extremely hard to break apart, hence the incredibly high melting point.
It is these 4 bonds that make carbon so usefull tooā¦ it has 4 places to connect to other atoms, and form chains, that make our fuel, food and DNAā¦
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This from direct observations.
What is more than just a temperature energization?
The burning charcoal glow energy transfer.
I watch surfaces deposited black carbon soots ādisappearā subject to that intense energy glow. This same solids to carbons gasification happens too. The char glow energy penetrating and affecting below just the solids surface molecules.
Speed off as a gaseous; they then flow. Flow by the principals of more to less. And outside induced factors.
Bird swarm flows. Bait fishes flow balls.
S.U.
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Kristijan, this subject reminds me of the time when I videoed my charcoal gasifier forge nozzle with a mirror from the bottom. It showed the charcoal bouncing around in the air stream glowing white hot and getting smaller and smaller while giving up CO before dropping out of the air stream.
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Here we have come to the basic chemical-physical properties of the processes that take place in the gasifier, and there are different ideas about this. Kristjan is probably right when he talks about the static action of āelectronsā that connect the nuclei to each other, but temperature or electric current sets them in motion. Fire is actually a plasma of electrons, which are redistributed between the nuclei of oxygen, hydrogen and carbon atoms, creating peaks of energy that we see as fire, it is actually a plasma of particles with energy that can also be converted into electric current. Letās remember solar receivers of electricity, various fire detectors in gas burners,ā¦ We try to keep this spark and radiation from glowing coal in the core of the process, which is best done by reflection from the metal surface. Modern devices for the processing of waste maintain a layer of plasma with an electric current, they state a temperature of over 4000Ā°C, through which the waste travels and breaks down into basic elements, they also state that carbon is needed in this process. The gas from this process is very calorific and nitrogen-free, and the electrical energy input represents a rather small proportion of the gas energy obtained.
When I think like this, I realize that actually the entire operation of wood gas engines is based on the flow of electrons, first in the gasifier, then in the ignition coils and finally when the spark plug is ignited and the wood gas is burned, a whole mess of electrons jumping.
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I like it. When thinking this in the Electromagnetic field science of a vortex toroidal field like Testa explained it. With both neutrons, photons and electrons.
like Kristijan said what they draw up on paper to show in a simple drawing is not how it really is in real life functions of motion in a atom structure. We live in a electrical universe.
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Is Atomic structure what we believe it to be?
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I have followed him for years very interesting things he has figured out. He figured out what Tesla was talking about how the earth rings like a bell. 8 hz. Peoples of old were not a bunch of dumb monkey men beating on logs and stone with piece of wood. They were more advance then the world is now but on a much big, bigger scale using these structures. We are now advanced on a small scale things that you can hold in our hand, but it needs batteries or it will not work. Oh wait we have solar now. Their stuff ran on the energy that is all around us all the time. The electro magnetic resonance field that Tesla talked about.
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I agree mostly. Plasma is ionised gas. Electrons start to jump in to higher and lower energy state orbital and each time they do that they emit a photon, what we see as light. And indeed, in this state the the gas is āconductiveā.
I dont remember exactly how it works, but there is a generator that uses a hot flame going trugh a magnet that produces electricity directly from the fast moveing plasma. I do think a bit of salt is wicked in the flame too to aid to the conductivity of the flame via introducing more ions.
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Well, i see what Tone is in to, this is hard thinking.
Is there a temperature 4000Ā°c, where this state of matters take place? Maybe, a super fast transition of temperatures, when molecules absorb heat in the process?
The āover allā temperature is what we can see, more moderate 1000-1500Ā°c?
The common phenomena when a wood-gasifier runs out of wood, near total meltdown, it produces a very strong, rich, gas, very noticeable in imbert-style gasifiers anyways- there must be something more going on than just bigger amounts of hydrogen? Where does the nitrogen dissapear?
I know when i run my volvo in this meltdown-mode, i can swear it ran Much better/faster than on gasoline, multiple occasions approved.
There is something here to be found, and i believe Tone and Kristijan may find it out sooner or later.
And for plasma state: an electrical arc, even a low power one, has enormous temperatures in a plasma āpathā , how could it be it can be touched without burning? (Low power, like electrostatic, or a tesla coil) there is high temperatures, but low energy, maybe the same in the gasifier, 4000Ā° but the energy is transformed fast in to useable gasses?
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Wow, we have an abundance of nitrogen in the gasifier all the time more than oxygen. And you just said something I have never heard anyone say before, where does it go? Or maybe we should think or say how does it change. Now we know if you take one nitrogen and three hydrogen it makes up a burn able gas we call ammonia. So all that needs to be done is get these 4 atoms all together some how. Right!
I wonder if we could get this working in a plasma that = a very hot electrical field. A Negative vaccum that = a atmosphere with a electromagnet reaction being applied to it. And a resonating frequency of sound and light being manifested because of the plasma being formed by the gasifiers shape and of its design to operate and make a plasma lobe operating at a very fast reaction speed of change.
In my WK Gasifier Goran, I have experienced the very same thing at the end of my hopper fuel run, lots of power better then gasoline like you said many times. I know when it happens my temperatures a going to go up fast in the hopper once that radiant glow hit my temperature gage. You have experienced with the Embert Gasifier design. Two different designs same experience in results. Very interesting wouldnāt you say.
This is one reason I like to mix a little larger charcoal pieces in with my wood that we call Rocket Fuel Mix. It seems to cause this event to happen more often for me but not every time. It seems the conditions needs to be just right for it to happen. Like when I am pulling a very high vaccum 40 + on my cooling rails and 15 + vaccum in the hopper. Not the normal running range going down the road. But not over pulling on the gasifier grate area causing a heater effect in the cross over. One more thing, it happens when I am burning hard wood like the cherry wood I burn, not the soft poplar wood trees or tall wind break trees we have here.
Tone, Sorry for getting carried away with all this, but it is absolutely fascinating to me. Something is happening to the nitrogen gas even though it is an inert gas but a very important gas with out it we would not have life as we know it.
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Here is an article on plasma waste treatment
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First, Tone sorry for jumping in to your thread.
Spot on Bob, i remember iāve read WK gasifiers acting like this too, when running out of wood, probably safer due to the bigger charcoal reserve?
Anyhow, Tone lead me to this thinking, when mentioning higher temperatures, rich, nitrogen free gas.
Perfect woodgas, in theory should make 70-75% of gasoline power, very hydrogen rich gas, like Dowson gas, still not 100% of gasoline power.
When this meltdown reaction happens, i experience this like 100-110% of gasoline power.
Wood contains carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, is it possible in this temperatures a reaction takes place, that donāt need any air from the nozzles? Or nitrogen being converted to something ābetterā? Reaction takes place in plasma state, as Tone suggests?
Could be interesting to put a flow meter in gasifiers primary air intake, to see what happens when meltdown temperatures takes place.
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