Hi all, Welllll, the Ford Ranger is now running on gasoline and I have no idea what the problem was. Put new plugs in and cranked the engine over while they sat on a grounded surface and they all had a hot spark. Now I can return the coil pack I bought because the old one is still good. Put the plugs in, shot some ether in the throttle body and…It fired right up until the ether was burned up. This same proceedure was followed several days ago with no cylinders firing. Well, now I can return the crank sensor I bought. Another shot of ether and the engine fired just fine until the ether was used up. OK, no gasoline then, BUT the fuel rail had pressure. Finally I started it on ether and while the engine fired, I pumped the accelerator rapidly, The engine started pulling gasoline die down then reve up then die down then reve up and then it ran just fine,
For now, I am just running on gasoline but will make some modification to the charcoal gas system before using it again, These modification include 1. Installing a valve to shut off the charcoal gas from entering the air intake of the engine, This way I can drive my last few miles on gasoline with no charcoal gas making the air mixture richer, 2. I will install a cooler/cyclone (5 gallon metal bucket) to see if some of that soot will drop out before getting to the engine. 3. I’ll also monitor the use of the oil drip/ water drip and no drip to see what affect that has on soot build up.
That is it for now, More later.
Gary in PA
It sounds like your gasoline fuel system just got jealous because your engine had a new girlfriend called “Carmine” Monoxide.
Gary Keep the starting fluid with the truck. It sounds to me like the fuel line got air locked. What you did with the starting fluid was something like what happens in diesels when they run out of fuel. You don’t just add fuel and drive away. You have to bleed the air out of the line. The fuel pump becomes locked with air. I don’t know if your truck has an air leak, or in shutting off the fuel and running on Carmine Monoxide, caused an air lock. TomC
@TomC I’m pretty sure you can vapor-lock gasoline vehicles too. That said, @glgilmore said he couldn’t get even a cough using ether, which points to an intermittent spark problem to me.
Hi Gary, sounds like you are making progress. I’m not a mechanic, so I don’t understand the part I quoted above. What happens in a Throttle Body Injection system when you “pump the accelerator”? It does not have an accelerator pump, does it? When you mash on the accelerator pedal, it turns a shaft on the throttle position sensor, which tells the Motorola computer to inject more gasoline. At the same time, the computer calculates the weight on the incoming air (Mass Airflow Sensor), and the Oxygen sensor in the exhaust determines if the mixture of air and fuel was correct.
Based on this thought, my bet is on soot (or even tar) in the Throttle Body assembly, or perhaps a bad connector somewhere in the system. So, I agree 100% with your 3 step plan to sort this out. Perhaps someone who knows the system will chime in…
Gary,
My hunch is the same as Ray’s.
Is the computer throwing any codes? Does your CEL even work? Does it come on in KOEO mode?
When my '92 Ford computer said “TPS sensor out of range” it turned out to be right. Those computers are scary reliable, but the instrument panel bulbs sometimes aren’t . . .
Brian; Yes you can get vapor lock in gasoline but highly unlikely with modern day formula of gasoline. I am talking about AIR lock in the gas line. A diesel engine fuel pump will only cavitate when air gets to it and can’t pull any fuel into the pump. I have no faith in “starting fluids” now days. They are NOT either anymore. Yesterday I was working on a single cylinder engine, it had excellent spark. When I sprayed SF into the carburetor, nothing happened. When I pulled the fuel line off the fuel pump I noticed nothing came out of the line. The line was plugged. Cleaned it and away we gooo!TomC
Yes. Sorry, I did mean “air lock”. So many still refer to it as “vapor-lock”.
Hey GaryG before you throw parts at this problem use the power of the Net and search up. “1994 Ford Ranger Intermittent Spark”
I did. And found four solid references to owners experiences that were resolved
.Anytime one of us finds an obscure vehicle model pattern failure problen and talks Net about it like WayneK did on his Dakota it gets searchable then.
Found two searched out design/manufacturing headaches on family vehicles this way. Recorded two others that were hours and hours of headaches for me chasing wiring problems down to pinpoint plastic harness plugs being either weather temperature sensitive, or years in service pin-plug undersized then in-use circuit heat flow go intermittent.
The more aftermarket cheapest junk parts you throw at an intermittent problem the more you are playing a added jokers go’s wild card game. BE suspicious of previously replaced parts.
Yes an alternative fuel is a good diagnostic. But use bottled propane as a fuel gas. More reliable and safer.
On spark checks use an actual wider gapped spark tester to load the system versus an easy not under compression standard spark plug. You will need two for each coil in a wasted spark system.
Regards
Steve Unruh
Well, good news and bad news, I posted this over two weeks ago;
For now, I am just running on gasoline but will make some modification to the charcoal gas system before using it again, These modification include 1. Installing a valve to shut off the charcoal gas from entering the air intake of the engine, This way I can drive my last few miles on gasoline with no charcoal gas making the air mixture richer, 2. I will install a cooler/cyclone (5 gallon metal bucket) to see if some of that soot will drop out before getting to the engine. 3. I’ll also monitor the use of the oil drip/ water drip and no drip to see what affect that has on soot build up.
These changes were done while I continued to drive to work and home on gasoline, No problems,
Once everything was installed, it was time to start driving on charcoal again, Well I made two or three round trips to work (20 miles each way) and then got ready to go to work one morning and NO START!!!
The three times this happens is in the morning. Tried today to get it going again, but no luck. Good spark, fuel spirts from the schrader valve. Can the computer shut off the engine or is there something else going on, REALLY frustrating, It is fun to drive on charcoal gas and this problem is really it.
Gary in PA
Hi Gary; My heart goes out to you. I have a Ford tractor, that I can’t get to run. A friend that said he had worked on old Fords came over and thought he would have it running in minutes. 8 hours later he went home shaking his head. It still doesn’t run.
Having said that, I do have something in mind that might help you. You say you have fuel spirting out of the Schroeder valve. So the next place to look is at the injectors. With a test light turn on the key and see if you have current to the injectors. If you do; have some one turn the engine over you should hear a bebe rattling noise as the solenoids open and close the injectors. It is very hard to see if any fuel is spraying out of the injectors, so try to stick something below the injector and see if it gets a little wet. IF you have pressure at the Schroeder valve, and current at the injector and the rattle of the solenoid, and a spray coming out ot the injector, it must be running-- or it should.
Bleed the pressure on the Schroeder valve. Turn the engine over and see if it builds up again. If not-- fuel pump.
If you don’t have current at the solenoid, check your fuse and wires for short. Also make sure you have straps to ground the engine to the body/frame for a complete circuit. I believe the computer grounds the wires to the injectors to make the solenoid work.
No bebe rattling sound — we have a bad solenoid or a
computer problem.
Everything but not gas spraying below the injectors. Air in the line, between the Schroeder valve and the injector. Hold the gas wide open and turn it over so the injectors can bleed the air out.
As I said, I can’t get a old Ford tractor with a carburator started, but these are some ideas to try.TomC
PS Could you possibly start it on charcoal gas – that would tell if the gasoline system is messed up.
Hi gary hope the qwirk aint too hard too find, One thing i have done when fuel pump was at questian is put a small propane tank in back seat,bolt a old barique regulator too tank and run a hose too the intake vac line and crack the tank valve ever so slightly and when you get the air fuel ratio good it will start,i have drove down the road this way, too get back home it may only idle fast ,but can be driven, Or not much control this way but i had it working on a geo tracker,and geo metro.Just enough too get back home and fix the problem,make sure hoses are good and no leaks from tank too intake manifold.
Tom, I’ll use your insight to do some more checking in the realm of injector problems, However, I splashed some gasoline in the throttle body and nothing, I did push in the Schroeder valve and had gasoline squirt out although it wasn’t much pressure. Reminder to check online to see what the fuel line pressure should be. I also like the idea of the propane tank and hose that Kevin suggested,
I cannot imagine spending 8 hours on a carbruated tractor engine and not finding out what the problem was, It has to be gasoline, spark, air, timing or compression,. Let us know what it is when you find out,
Gary in PA now driving on dino fuel
All good advice you are getting GaryG.
Wanna bet you got this 2004 because the previous owner was having the same problem and dumped it?
When I had NET searched up for intermittent starting problems for your Ranger somehow I had it in my head it was a 1994.
No matter. Still a valid way you need to approce this problem too. On the 1990’s Ranger series there were numerous cold start complaints finally traced back to a viberation/heat cycle use breakdown in the underhood fuse relay center for the fuel pump relay ground circuit. Some times the broken wire ends insides the insulation jacket just below the roll crimped on female terminal making connection - sometimes would not. Under hood temperature made the change occure. This would have been a manufacturing overcrimp at that junction work stressing hardening the copper wire strands. Opps.
Another pattern failure on that chassis was found to be a grounding circuit back under the bed developing corrosion in the rust belt areas and then not allowing for a good enough in tank fuel pump power. Wet road conditions with conductive salts - OK. COLD - frozen non-conductive, than not enough circuit flow.
Two other common vehicle harness component problems owner/users/repairfolk had found for that series of Ranger causing intermittent running/dieing/starting.
Your 2004 Ranger will defiantly be a wide/deep/ fast processor/memory capably “OBDII” system. 6 production years into ever tightening OBD ll mandates be an advance generation two or three system at that.
Problem even then is it will only code out what it was programmed to detect and cry uncle about.
The fact it will start and run OK on gasoline does rule out much mechanical like jumped timing chains/belts and such.
The later the vehicle chassis IS, the more cards of possibilities in the deck though man.
I’ve seen these problems traced back to worn intermittent anti-theft ID components in the key transmitter, receiver, module. Your will have this factory pre-installed even if you do not use it.
Once you’ve verified the obvious then the game gets just too fun.
TomC on old Ford tractors the cranks-no-start-run areas I’ve ran into many times have been:
- internally shorting out distributor all ternimals out the side “crab-caps”. Crab cap 2.6L Mitsubishi SOHC V-6’s bad for that too.
- Beauty paint insulating the distributor points ground path distributor points plate to distributor body; distributor body to engine block; engine block to chassis. Fought this problem for decades in charging systems on much repainted refreshed diesel equipment to learn this.
Quickest/easiest diag is to 3/23" drill down through both the pos and neg battery terminals Sheet metal terminal screw into these and run your own FOR-SURE parrel circut bypass wires. No improvement. Good. Jump to something else. Circuit performance/functioning improvement. Find which leg pos or neg is helped. Back up that legs bypass circut connections to pinpoint the problem point. Curse the painter man.
Ha! Seen this same make pretty problem on previous working fine $250K CNC machines. Ugly/expensive problems to fix then!
Regards
Steve Unruh
If it has a distributor, pickup coil goes out around 170000 miles, i
Hey Steve, Thanks for jumping in here. I got the beast running but it took at least 15 minutes of cranking. Turn the engine over a few seconds and then let off and it would fire once or not, Try it again and maybe fire two times after letting off, Then try again (estimate at least 30 tries of turning the engine over) it would fire once. Eventually it did fire and start up, And I did use some ether initally, Plugged in the monitor and found some codes that mostly mean Greek to me, One code is P0171 system too lean bank 1. But it still should have fired on ether or the gasoline I splashed in the throttle body the other day. I’ll run it on dino fuel for now and monitor the engine, It is due for inspection so will have the mechanic change the fuel filter too, Still a mystery to me,
Gary in PA
Seems a good time to try hybrid mode Gary. Maybe just let the computer fill in the blanks and add fuel as it sees fit when running on charcoal? See if the issue goes away? It’s not even my project and this fault is driving me crazy!
Keep us posted
Gary, on Oct. 6, I posted this on the Charcoal Gasifier Group. I’ll post it here, too. What I get from this is that you need 60 PSI of pressure on that rail. This guy hooked up a pressure gauge. Take a look: On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 8:35 PM, [email protected] [charcoalgasifiers] [email protected] wrote:
Check fuel pressure in the fuel rail,
Hello Gary, Thanks for the update. Here is a video where a guy removes
the schrader valve on the fuel rail, and attaches an air pressure gauge
(used an ashcroft gauge and some old fuel line), and bungee cords it to
his hood so he can watch the fuel pressure while driving. In his case
his Ford Ranger indicated a good 60 psi all the time. (This is one of
those, “be real careful” things.")
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poS2K9VdTR8
There is also a check valve and a fuel pressure regulator to worry about. Good Luck.
Let me know what the pressure gauge shows, por favor. Ray