Nice drawing eddy, you are a true artist. never tried an oil bath yet, but long as the straw media filter is there and the towl filter should be plenty, with a hot enough running hearth of the gasifier design. looks Good. PS well since this is charco unit , not wood gasifier unit maybe dont need straw or media filter.
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Hi Koen,
Patent laws have changed recently. It’s all about whoever is the ‘first to file’ these days.
Rindert
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Hi Rindert,
I am kinda “knowledgeable” about patents… yes, it is about “first to file” , but a lot more things involved…
I read and breath patent stuff on daily basis, heck even have quite a few filings ongoing…
However, there are restrictions, you can’t use the terminology “patent pending” before your papers have been examined and the results are published.
Hence my question to Eddy…
Patents, before granted, need to full fill a few criteria amongst: it must be new, involve an innovative “thing”, and it must be industrial useful…
One problem: your innovation gets published (full disclosing) before you’r granted a patent… and your work can get opposition from other party’s…
So, i am kinda curious, what kinda of innovation is there what isn’t , at base, the work from others ?
If the appollo rocket is patented, i can invent a bolt that enhances the performance of said rocket, but i can’t again ask for patent for the rocket… not even for said rocket with said bolt, only for the bolt itself…and only for the particularity’s of said bolt… ( patent claims)
In case there is a traceable posting somewhere, that a bolt was already used, but never mentioned, then such bolt can not get patented …
That is one of the reasons not to use the term Patent Pending before publication…
If the researchers for the patent office find documentation before the examination/publication, then they consider your work as “already existent”
The above is a summarising of some complex system… ( not the rocket nor the bolt )
based on my experience and my opinion.
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very interesting all, thanks
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Thanks Koen, that’s good information.
I’ve been told that a patent is more or less useless if you don’t have the resources to defend it in court. I guess that makes sense to me. So what if I don’t have such resources but have come up with a new way of doing things. I’ve heard the term ‘poor man’s patent’. Could you tell me how to go about something like that?
Rindert
Hi Koen:
Nice to hear from you and thank you very much for your concern about me using the term “patent pending”. Because of this I asked my patenting agent (30 years of experience) about me using this term, and he said that is correct. This gave me great peace of mind.
Let me share with you a experience that I had one year ago. I was with my gasifier mounted on my truck and explaining to a friend of mine how this system works. An estrange guy was at my back listening to my explanation and ready to take a picture of it. When I saw him, I said: “No problem, you can take any pictures, because this is already patented (which was not true)”. The guy said: “In that case I am not interested, and he put away his cell phone… took no pictures at all”…!!
Let me share again with you my thoughts: As far as I can see there are two extreme ways that a designer can protect himself from others claims on using his design.
A) The designers “common sense” or Koen’s way. This is to hide the most and show the least, which is totally comprehensive, acceptable and respectable. Since the design is not exposed, the designer is protected against other claims.
B) The designers “community service”, or this forum/my way. This is to hide the least and show the most. The problem here is that since all is exposed, somebody else may patent the design and go against the original designer. So in this “B” case the designer has to rush and try to patent his design, before other may do it (at least here in Argentina). And this way he may try to protect himself against others claims.
B.R.
Eddy Ramos (Argentina).
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Wow, who knew? I better rush out and get a patent on my activated carbon underwear since I am a human gasifier.
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Good Morning Eddie and Koen.
There is a “third” developed modern way that i have ran afoul with. Creative Commons licensing.
Using-participating in an a so-called open environment and then Owing all further developments by you back to the Commons.
You cannot then patent. Or restrict or hide in any way your developments.
And this has now in gasification been use-abused turning all participants into honey-bee idea developer slaves.
TomH you misunderstand these fellows. They are young-ish. They need to generate an income for their families raising.
You and I made ours in other ways, not gasification.
You and I are “hobbyists”. We do this for interests, itch-scratchin’ and fun.
Eddy and Koen the real control over your systems is that they are very operator experienced dependent.
Keep them that way and then you will retain control.
Let others try to one-button commoditize them. They will fail to match easy-made-to-use Dino fuels. Until they can make the solid fuel input standardized and consistent specification graded. Then trade-group controlled.
And THAT is where they want to make their money. The consumable fuel.
Regards
Steve unruh
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The Wikipedia article on these licenses assumes “patent holders” (see under Disadvantages). I doubt that a humanitarian license can be exercised as an effective substitute for patent protection. I wish that it could.
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Driveing for many hours with Dr Larry Winiarski, the Rocket stove inventor, to Argos meeting 2 years back, we had the time to talk for hours. Among other this he mentioned he never patented the Rocket stove. He sayd he never wanted to make money out of it but wanted to leave something behind for humanity. But he did not want anyone else to make money from his hard work, so he just published a article in a sciencetific journal and now he has proove he was the first inventor and noone can patent it other thain him.
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Hi Steve, Eddy,Rindert, Kristijan
Yeah, patents are tricky, spent a large part of my cariere dealing with pro and con’s
sometimes its needed, sometimes better to avoid…
In many cases just to expensive and you actual share your technology for others so they can gauge your capability’s ( running production with certain technology )
In answer to Rindert’s poor man’s patent… look under “petty patent”
In answer to Steve a side note:
Lets say i am working on some tech, unsure about the viability yet, want to use patent for protecting local people / manufacturers against cheap import…
Kinda hard to see someone using the knowledge to
and use the feathers of another bird…
To Kristijan,
Yes, that is kinda what i do with sharing some Knowhow on Youtube video’s , facebook postings and so on…
It also protects against claims incase someone files for patents after your first publications…
To those who want to “claim” any rights… Its difficult and there is a lot of envy/jealousy/opportunism at any given level…
The nicest way to deal with it: Give credit to those who-me you learned from as in my case, my design in use is based on what i found workable from Gary Gilmore’s Simple Fire
I might have given it some twists but the credit for simplicity goes to him.
Same goes for the WK design, it will work as advertised, its a very nice concept, i still did not build a WK, did build lot of other things, but will not claim that one of my builds would be better then Waynes or Garry’s…
Same goes for a lot of builds i studied and learned from here on DOW, a lot of genuinity in many of these builds.
The fun for me is to find other ways, to fail where i think different and learn from my mistakes.
yap…
Those who want control are the middleman / opportunists
Let’s say i am trying to eliminate the middleman in the cycle between Farmer/community and the industry.
In todays life the farmer gets 200 per 1000, from middleman, and industry pay’s 3500 per 1000 to the middleman and a lot off kickback’s involved…
Somehow i walk already around with a target on my back over here 
coz i am not interested in offered kickbacks…
Hence, i will not be rich or not get old 
but dang sure i will make a difference…
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Mr.Koen
Actually I am not scholar as you and all Dow members but all these patent things really become obstacle or wall which block people to change lives from abudent knowledge available here like this forum . people becomes greedy and the benefits of all these work not received to the real needy people s
Of the middle man concept and greed of some people obstract the social development.
Best example is I read about low cost gasifier in 2009 in news develop by iit Delhi I personally visit that institute for same but no formal guidence or support from any personal even no details of said gasifier on their website.fortunatelly I got that one of your Post on DOW
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I don’t know the about patent things but one class and powerful people here in India are successful obstacle such knowledge to maases
Very contraversial here,at one side piles biomass here causes pollution and system is focused on imported techs like Evs and others
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Found a patent assigned to U. S.A
Current Assignee
The listed assignees may be inaccurate.
Google has not performed a legal analysis and makes no representation or warranty as to the accuracy of the list.
US Department of Agriculture USDA
Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation
FEDERAL FUNDING STATEMENT
This invention was made with United States government support awarded by the following agency: USDA/FS 06-JV11111136-104. The United States has certain rights in this invention.
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Creative Commons is great for written creative work. Now we need something like that for mechanical work. Maybe it is out there?
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I really liked the drawings above.
They gave me a lot to think about.
The first thing I would change is the positioning of the blower.
( depending on what type of blower being used)
I have found that the plastic bilge blowers don’t last long in the continuous gas stream. Even with very clean gas the blower needs to be cleaned periodically, and eventually replaced. If you move the blower past the engine sir intake, with a shut off valve between the air intake and the blower. Now the blower only has gas passing through it for a short period of time. Also once the gas is spark ignitable, the good gas is right there at your engine air intake. Making starting the engine easier.
I did this with a chipper shredder that I ran on char gas. When my blower and flare were before the air intake, ( I was using the air intake as my flare port) ( still don’t know why it worked like that, or didn’t work) I had a hard time starting the motor. But when I moved the blower and flare port to the other side of the air intake, it started much easier. You have to close the air intake completely when trying to flare. My bilge blower lasted another year, before I discarded it.
I am not going to say anything about the filters. I only have dry particulate filtration experience.
That and different things work better for different people, and applications. Thank you for the drawings, I have learned so much!
Very cool discussion.
Jesse Hart
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