Gasification of hammermilled straw

My GT30 can take a PTO box, the rear transaxle is all set up for it inside, but these boxes are rare as hens teeth. If I could get my hands on one of them it would be decided.

I’m going to follow this logic:

  1. Buy a motor CHEAP, may not be ideal, but will mill a little straw slowly to provide proof of principal. Spend a little now, and if works out, spend the big bucks later.

  2. The perfect deal comes along, perfect motor, great price. Get what I need now at a higher price, but where resale to recoup 100% of outlay is near assured. If straw gasification fails - sell it. The mill I purchased followed this logic - it will sell for 2X what I paid for it easy.

  3. A great deal value wise comes up, it can run the mill, it could run a pto genset, maybe a genset comes with it, maybe it could also replace the motor in my dozer (like if bought an F140), maybe it comes with a clutch and PTO set up. A deal that gives me what I need now, and also what I need later, or something that can provide more than 1 function if set up right. I don’t mind spending the money on something good, but the value has to be there.

Sean you can also get a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) which will accept DC Bus voltage. Not all will. It is call Common Bus Mode. It is designed for load sharing in industrial controls and allows one motor to make use of the regeneration energy of a different motor in a system. If you work with high voltage DC make sure you fully understand the safety requirements DC voltage 40 volts and up is considered lethal.

Strawman Just figure out a pulley setup that will allow you to use the same drive pulley that runs the mower deck on your GT30. If it has a snow blower option that would give you the redirection setup you would be looking for.

1 Like

The GT30 is a bulldozer, but I know what you’re saying. I actually just sold a 48" 2 stage blower last summer that would have been perfect for what you’re talking about. I think these mills need like 3000 rpm anyway - I’m probably going to just go 1:1 if the motor I end up with is happy at that RPM. Now that I’m typing this, I remember that somewhere out in the shed I should have a 1" shaft right angle gearbox - I will dig around a bit tonight and see.

The tractor belt pulley would have been about 1800 rpm max I think. If I remember correctly they are geared 1 to 1 with the motor.

Good Morning Strawman Will.
(or, Will the Strawman)
I haven’t been following this straw topic as I decided by experiences of “all Biomass” using a while back that tree to direct use fuel wood was the shortest, directest route for Individual/Family making of shaft and electric powers.

I am really responding now that you have in detail lined out your experiences and goals in the “What’s Your Motivation” topic. All observations, goals, and desires that I pretty much agree with.
This is your started topic so you more or less act as the first moderator here.

Going back to your originating post here, you say that you actually do have some of your own site trees/wood that could be available? (or,maybe someone else new here?)
On your Why Woodgas post you say you also carrot on a stick, donkey-like followed bought out fuels for heat trends . . . and always found “they” would change the game on you.
Us too . . . in my family’s. One branch: fuel oil → to propane → to electric heat → to wood pellets → now back to electric heat.
Another branch: railed in coal (anthracite) → to fuel oil ->to electric heat → to wood pellets.
Only us branches insisting on remaining living out Rural with out own, owned, wood lots have every had stable, reliable heating insisting on continuing using “old” 19th/20th century woodstoving.
We’ve been the ones with the far least fuel tax burdens. The only ones with actual heating energy FREEDOM. And we actually overall live longer, healthier, annual sweating in our fuel woods. Our kids grow up more responsible always having a wood-heating work ethic demand. Learn to young-muscles responsibly help the family elderly with their woodstoving needs.
Yeah. Yeah. Each of us woodstoving branches have progressively been insulating, upgrading, Then windows replacing in our old houses. Upgrading wood stoves to modern secondary, even quad-zone clean-burn engineered types. Upgrading chimneys to coded/insurable modern doublewall insulated SS types. Earhquake contry and I am glad to see the 1940’s brick chimney gone now.
We burning up to 60% less wood by volume per household annually now. And burning cleaner.
Even owing your own wood lots at lowest tax’s/gov’mint interference; wood-for-power is not exactly cheap. Certainly NOT free. Wears out chainsaws, wood trucks. Lots of splitting maul handles broken. Grinding shells and files worn out, sharpening. Fuels for the wood splitter, saws, tractors and trucks.
The energy control and freedom is the priceless part of it.

Buying discard hay/straw from a field growing neighbor is no different from buying out any other fuel-enegy. A start cheap - goes up. Become then demand driven up, unavailable. Demand bid-for.
Here, Washington State this “sale-exchange” is taxable at a 7-8% rate.
Even, YOU, sell your firewood out requires you to report, collect and send in taxes on these sales.
Then in other adjacent states and US Federal gov’mint you are supposed to report “income” and pay social-obligation taxes on all sale/BARTER incomes.

So beyond the technical problems, the more equipment steps to process and use, AG “wastes” as fuels . . . . they will carry a much higher tax exposure risk versus just more directly using your own site-grown wood-for-fuel.

Wood-for-fuel IS the ordinary mans only true freedom fuel.
All else cannot be no-till site produced like tree-woods and therefore you always end up back playing their same games. For their same gains. You experience the loss’s. Loss of Freedom. Loss of Independence. Loss of personal control over your life for yourself and yours.

Over and above the challenge “fun” of forcing some system to work in some fashion;
why many, many here will say “wood does it better, and easier”.

The real splitting point I find is whether a fellow is doing alternative energy for himself/his family . . . .or out world saving.
The first is direct, doable, achievable.
The second is Cyrano-like, windmills tipping. Windmills have a reluctance to give-in, give-up. And react bite you back.

Best regards
J-I-C Steve Unruh
.

3 Likes

Hi Steve, thanks for your $0.02, and it sounds like we are of similar mind. I wish I had a real woodlot, if I did, I already would have a WK gasifier on the go. I have 4 acres with little trees. I do have the ability to salvage and scrounge wood, but my plans are for practical application on a regular basis, and starting with a fuel that has me on the run all the time might set me up to fail. Straw is surely going against the grain, but the stuff is all over the place here for cheap. Farmers have trouble unloading their excess, and there are more than a few fields out here with old grey bales sitting out there that were never hauled in. I’ll give it an honest go, and if I fail with straw; I guess I’ll find out exactly how bad I want to get woodgas working for me!

I’d also be burning wood too, but no wood lot and it’s pretty much $300.00/bush cord out my way, which is basically the same cost as pellets. You’re right about bouncing from fuel to fuel, pellets were 4.00/bag when I started, and more or less $6.00/bag now. A big woodlot is freedom like you say, and I envy you guys with all that potential in the back yard🙂.

Now, regarding your comments on buying straw as fuel and how it starts cheap and then goes up. I have learned with pellets that this is truly the case, and made plans years ago to diversify my heating fuels when the UL label and TSSA collar on my oil burning gear expired. Maybe a wood/propane combo furnace. Problem was it took 7 years to empty the last oil tank fill since I moved to pellets, and I just managed to refill once more before everything expired, so I am now near three years into emptying the tank again, with probably 4-5 years left to go before it’s all gone. Now I’m trying woodgas, so the oil burner might stay. With straw, I think I’m safe using it as a fuel because no one out here is using it as such. A big load of straw would look right at home on my property, and it’s piled high everywhere I go. If the farmer charges tax on it, no problem - it won’t amount to a hill of beans. I asked around regarding the cost of straw previously, and asked one guy if there was tax applicable and he just laughed, kind of like getting a quote on a new roof out this way😄.

I think the local rural culture works in my favour here, and maybe it’s different here than out your way. The black market economy here is huge, every tradesman you can name is moonlighting, mechanics, carpenters, roofers, snow removal, landscaping, on and on. Breaking the law seems to be a local passtime, and since most of these micromanaging type laws, bylaws, and regulations are stupid to begin with, nothing ever becomes of it, which is evidently cool with pretty much everyone. Fact is, if I do heat with woodgas, I’m sure it’s both totally illegal according to the law, and off limits according to my insurance company. Same if I drive on woodgas, probably not even legal to make your own power with a home built gasifier. No UL label, no TSSA review, no OPA inspection no CSA certification, you get the point. If I decide to go down the woodgas road for practical everyday use, I’ll be breaking the law left right and centre every hour of every day, so wheather the straw is a tax free deal is the least of my concerns!

3 Likes

I think the JD has a 2000rpm pto option for mower decks and snowthrowers. But If it is what the current deck is attached to, then it is pullied up to around 3000rpm on the deck for the blades.

You might want to tone down the language here… Bragging about how illegal your activities are on a public facing website does not seem wise to me. You are not invisible…

I also want to emphasize to others reading this, that in most cases and most places woodgas is NOT illegal. It is undefined, or “extralegal”. We’re just not on the radar yet. Some (most) folks prefer it that way. Even getting shut down by an insurance company (which has happened) does not mean you broke any laws.

In countries where they have laws regarding woodgas, it is rarely prohibited outright, usually restrictions apply to the vehicle class and age, and inspections/permits are required.

4 Likes

@SteveUnruh Hi Steve. My 2 cents on your take on things.

Firstly, I’d like to say that in my opinion on practically any topic on here your experience and expertise outclasses mine by a wide margin. I appreciate what you are saying about don’t become beholden to the system, or the man. And live locally and sustainably.

But, in reality none of these projects will be possible without many skilled professions and various industries in the larger society reaching around the globe. Without modern bearings, lubricants, and motor oil very soon nothing will run. And the list just goes on from there.

My take on the straw resource is that straw is an overly abundant natural waste byproduct from grain production. If people were living in a proper balance with nature they should all have at least a few acres, (or be living in a village surrounded by fields), livestock and household needs will require grain cultivation, so it’s a natural fit for a truly sustainable living. Presently this considerable resource is mostly wasted. If a person is lucky enough to have farm land, as I and various members do, it makes good sense to better use the resource. For larger society, even if they are living in cities, their ecological footprint still includes more than enough straw to cover much of their fuel needs.

Man does not live by wood alone? :slight_smile:

Regards,

2 Likes

Understood, although I’ve got zero “illegal” woodgas activities going on at the moment🙂.

I don’t think too many DOW’s are going to be very surprised with what I posted up there. We probably all know roughly what we can get away with in our respective areas. We can probably recall some members who thought it best to remove their entire rig before taking their vehicles in for inspection yes? My situation outside my immediate area is going to be very similar to those DOW’s in the EU, “everything is illegal unless expressly allowed”…

2 Likes

All the same, Chris makes a solid point, words and statements are searchable by the bots, best not to poke the sleeping dog.

1 Like

Of course you’re both right.

“let sleeping dogs lie”

I’ll keep the locals out of the dialogue from here on in :slightly_smiling_face:

1 Like

You are probably far safer with local reasonable folks than the “rules are rules” folks…

1 Like

Hey David B, if you’re passing thru this thread - just an OT question for you since you are north of 7. Have you ever looked into getting a firewood cutting permit to cut on Crown Land? Last I checked it was 75.00 and you could take 7 bush cords per year. I talked to the MNR guy about where about I’d have to go and he said you’re basically going to end up north of 7 every time. If you have ever your self, or know others who have gone this route, I was just wondering if they send you to slash piles, dead trees, or some other form of secondary wood, or if you actually end up getting something worthwhile.

Just thinking of plan B should the need arise :smile:

1 Like

The few people I know who do it are usually refer ed to an active cut zone that is already marked. You need some permits I’ve heard some people needing chainsaw training before. Here is a link: Using wood from Crown land for personal use | ontario.ca
I’ve thought of it but it’s never been worth it. I have 10 acres and I only use 5 face cords of hardwood wood per year to heat my 1300 Sq ft. I’ve alternated between making it on a neighbors wood lot and making some for him to pay for it or buying from a friend who makes wood or some from my own land (mostly softwood). A good option is to contact a local logger who cuts on crown or private lots. Mnr can usually help you find them. If you are close you can negotiate a load of logs at a better price. The fallING is the dangerous part and their equipment makes it easy.
Best I got.
David

1 Like

Now that I think about it the logger can let you know where he was working the year before. I’m sure the lot owner would love some of the slash gone they always do. Tops less then 3 inches already in piles would be perfect gasifier fuel…

1 Like

Thanks, I will explore this more if needed. There is occasional logging out my way. When it happens the slash piles would provide years of fuel and quick easy collecting. I have a trailer I could get almost 1.5 cords into, so it’s sort of doable. I’d probably have to drive 4 hours round trip to get up your way so not ideal on that end of things.

Those massive slash piles sure are alluring though! There’s a guy on YouTube who is in Northern Ontario and runs around through the slash piles for fuel. If that guy had a big trailer and a rebak like J.O. he could give Wayne K some competition!

In other news, attempt number one at extracting that hammer mill from its multi-decade home commences tomorrow afternoon.

1 Like

DavidB makes a good point.
Anywhere there is commercial logging activity going on it is easy to just buy a whole logtruck load of “cull”, “pulp-grade” (or if the dimensional lumber/export markets have tanked) even a full truck load of #2, #3 grade saw logs.
HERE that stovewood cuts out to a full 10 cords. 4 foot by 4 foot by 8 foot, 128 cubic foot cords.
We’ve family done this off and on for the last 50 years. $450 to $700 USD a long reach log truck load. Depending.
You ask for this in their off-season, need-money, time to pay the taxes, times of the year.

Ahm. And if the state weights and measures cops do not notice this is untaxed.

Don’t ask. Don’t tell. Is a wonderful ethic to live by.

Our own timber lot proprties here can subsatably produce at at least 10,000-15,000 pound per acre. Doug Fir and western hemlock conifer woods.
One acre per household for annual heating.
One acre per household for minimum electrical/woodgas power.
One acre per household (if ever needed) for an annual ~15,000 miles per year.
We do have 14 acres in woodlot next to us.
And 7 acres w-a-y up in the mountains at a riverside cabin.
We have this by sacrificed, choice intent. We refuse to live Urban. Will not live anywhere without mountains and trees.
Ha! And the wife refuses to live anywhere with venomous snakes. And that’s the real limiting factor. Have to learn to love lots of raining, volcanoes and 3.0-5.0 shaker earthquakes. Vertially zero PV potnetial. Winds always never enough directly into too much. Out picking up limbs from the last two days wind-shears now.

Think about it. If you live where trees do, and are grown, ALL events just puts more fuelwood down on the ground in easy reach! Even wild fires.

Regards
Steve Unruh
J-I-C Steve Unruh

2 Likes

North of 7 is where it’s at!

1 Like

LOL some day hopefully! I’d love to retire early and move up your way. I’m going to have a new B.I.L. come next month that lives up in Apsley. His place is just killer, wood, timber frame house on a small lake, even gets DSL.

I can’t get DSL way down here where I am!!! :rage: