Health Care Costs. Who. Where. Why

Off Topic
#64

There is one other significant factor in the medical discussion. Military spending. That will be one significant distinction between the US and countries with good functioning state run medical care systems. The so called peace dividend.

I’m fairly sure the 3 trillion spent in Iraq and Afghanistan would have paid for any kind of free medical care. But to do both might be beyond the tolerance of the public for taxation, and the leadership isnt likely to give up on the concept of global military dominance and global resource control. Which is kind of a shame. But war has always been incredibly good business for the corporate elite. And if no real war is available, they will produce boogeymen.

I call that a huge leak in the payroll, a misappropriation of public funds.

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#65

I think we are up to 6 trillion in middle east wars over the last 16 or so years. But I agree with you they are a huge drain on the usa economy. I refer to it as the oil wars because I believe that is the only reason we are there.

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#66

I think I can agree with every word of that Garry…with a resounding AMEN to the second post (Garry’s). :slight_smile:

Ford was certainly no gem. Nor Edison. :oncoming_automobile::bulb:

Side note: I find it ironic that Edison is credited with “inventing” electricity in any practical sense. But he so strongly opposed A/C power which is what we use so much of.
Makes me think of George Washington Carver from here in our area who developed more than 300 commercial uses for the peanut---- None of which was peanut butter. :stew:

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#67

Hey, that money doesn’t really cost us anything does it? haha
I thought we just print some more. hahaha

#68

That is the problem we keep printing more money and making our savings ot income worthless.

Don’t get me started on the monetary system. It is a big house of cards. If you want to know where it leads just look at Germany during the world wars their money got to the point where people ran from work to the market to spend their paycheck before it was useless.

But I will say our insane military spending would go a very long ways to building infrastructure, national healthcare or simply balancing our budget. But instead we keep spending on oil wars. And that my friend is why I want to be energy and food independent.

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#69

I tend to agree, but then there’s always the question(s), how much would our infrastructure cost us if it was getting blown up all the time? Or, would it be getting blown up all the time if we weren’t spending all that money on the wars? etc…chicken/egg. Isolationism/involvement/policing. Pay up front or after the fact…?

#70

Ok, I’ve heard enough. Were the men that built America perfect?,NO! no one is, but where would the world be without them, and the US of A. Canada has had all the freedom, and perks because of the USA. What would the world look like if the US wasn’t there to face the evil WW1, WW2 and now the evil that wants a caliphate? As far as Henry Ford he paid his workers twice what anyone else did, he felt the union was a slap in face. If the powers that be would have just followed what the founders set in place we wouldn’t have near the problems.

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#71

Canada was being bled white years before the US got involved in WWI. Per capita we lost more than the US, perhaps also in sheer numbers, not certain without googling, and the best of a generation that could never be replaced. And for a gross waste, that war meant nothing but unnecessary slaughter of the best of a generation, queen Victoria’s kids fighting against their own cousins while the business elites made mad cash. Achieved nothing but create WWII.

The Soviets won WWII, had the allies waited a couple of months longer to D day they would have met the Soviets in France. 200 Nazi battle standards dropped in Red square in June of 1945. As brave as the fighting men in western Europe were, they could barely manage with the beaten remnants of the Nazi force, were poorly equipped and inexperienced, particularly in terms of tanks and mobile armour.

As for who is protecting what, ample evidence that neither the US or Canada face any real danger from any quarter.

Ironic that the US set the gold standard of international relations after WWII, and hung many a German for violating it; engaging in acts of aggressive war. Essentially the golden rule of bickering kids in the back seat - keep your hands inside your own borders. No war would exist if that rule rightly set was respected.

So let’s make a list. 2 lists. Who last attacked the United States or Canada? Who have we attacked? That is a list of war crimes according to the standard of Nuremburg. One blatant one of late was reducing Libya into a withering hell, now a hotbed of Islamic terror and mass refugee exodus and exploitation. As Afghanistan was left at the end of the 80’s. As Kissinger said when asked who should win the Iran - Iraq war ( instigated by the US), he smugly said “neither”. Hitler’s men would have agreed. And smugly smiled. Some tens of millions dead.

You may also be unaware that Canada has been an active participant with heavy effect and cost in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, some 13 billion wasted in further brutalizing Afghanistan, some hundreds of millions in taking Libya apart from the air,ongoing violence in Iraq.

The “defense” looks like wholesale criminality, sorry.

I would like to see a world where basic international law was respected. But there’s one country that will not recognize the legitimacy of the world court. Exceptionalism is the hallmark of despotism and criminality.

#72

Like most men, Henry Ford had good and bad points. He did pay better than most since he knew it was a sound business practice to not lose his talent to someone who would pay better. He was also an extreme racist and had some other quirks that aren’t suitable to discuss in this venue.

I agree with much of that Garry, but you’re pretty far to an extreme I think. Steve mentioned something in his last post that I think describes your position pretty well. You hammer really hard at the faults this country has, but at the same time consider all good that has come out of this country to be incidental or accidental.

That’s simply not fair.

Have we ever done anything right, or is everything good we’ve done just an accident and everything bad we’ve done just despotism?

I’m pretty quick to acknowledge my faults and failures, but surely we deserve some credit for something at some point in this conversation. :relaxed:

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#73

I admire greatly the American form of government, I consider the American founding fathers to be the fathers of democracy and freedom globally, along with the French ( who helped significantly to pull your bacon out of the fire when the Brits wanted to reinstate their colonial system… :wink:) Our own losses in WWI were doubtless due to the influence of Britain, an incalculable waste. King and country, hurrah… :frowning:

I also consider the American constitution as one of the most brilliant documents ever written by men, far superior in its protection of rights and liberties than what we have here.

But the incredible supremacy of the US globally I respectfully believe has derived since the time of the taking of 51% of the national territory of Mexico and the Philippine genocide too much from the losses of others. The US has been blessed with incredible natural and human resources, and would have been an outstanding nation in any case, but the level of military violence for the sake of dominance over the resources rightfully of others took that to an entirely different level.

Sorry to say that, as from inside the propaganda bubble that is an unbelievable perspective. But from my perspective that is the danger of propaganda, it is used to steer good people and a good system into very bad places. Here in Canada my view is very much in the minority, most Canadians would easily pass for Americans in terms of accepting the propaganda.

This isn’t the appropriate forum for such a discussion. But if we are open minded and discussing facts, challenge me based on facts. The facts are fairly stark. I will also respectfully leave it at that.

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#74

:relaxed:hahaha, you got me with the French helping us thing…haha

Sounds good…It’s been a fun discussion. Thanks for it. I appreciate that we could have it without it getting out of hand…Let’s leave it at that. :slight_smile:

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#75

As I knew would happen, we’re way off from healthcare by now. This is the most political thread I’ve allowed in the forum to date, and I have yet to see the positive impact of this discussion. Temperatures are rising. I think it’s in our best interest to shut this down… everyone has said their piece. Let’s all get back to woodgas now.

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#76