Life Goes On COVID 19 Discussion

Off Topic
#73

There are masks. Then there are masks. Then there are face coverings.

Should be obvious that a form fitting molded neoprene tight elastic strapped to a clean shaven face WITH the correct filter cartridges will work.
What the best protected street Rioters use;
Commercial painters, Grinders, lead and asbestos removers all use.
A true commercial N95 or PM2.5 rated mask has proven if you can afford to use it as a disposable.
The seamster fabric made; the cheapest blue commercial disposable do help to cut the 6 feet distancing down considerably.
This is what I wear.

It is only polite to do, and participate.
Otherwise you highlight out yourself as any number of social undesirables.
Clueless.
Arrogant.
A rude in-face statement strutter.
The kind of person who loudly farts in public; abuses marked handicap parking spaces; vehicle parks/stands in the big grocery store mark red zones treating that store as run- in run-out convenience store damn everyone else’s convenience.

Me drinking 10 cup of coffee a day only jeopardizes me.
Non mask wearing in a pandemic is like intentionally blowing tobacco, marjanna, crack, vape steam&smokes into mine and everyone else’s faces.
You crude, rude, asshole.
People who insist on being exceptional will focus exceptional social attention onto themselves. Not in a good way attentions.

S.U.

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#74

Allow me to compare preventing the spread of Covid 19 with preventing accidental shooting death statistics

Can we agree uppon: if you get more people doing careless with guns, that the numbers will increase ?

Nothing against guns and surely nothing against people carrying guns…
Only against careless, unsafe acting with guns, people…

Keep your muzzle out of my face, even when i wear a bulletproof vest…

The only way that i can feel safe is if i see that you care about my safety; a: with guns: you don’t point the gun at me and you keep your finger of the trigger ( i can’t tell if your gun is loaded or not )
b: with Covid 19: you wear a mask and keep your social safe distance, you are aware of your “dropletts” flying around. I can’t see if you are covid19 contagious or not…

Now; lets treat both cases with the same respect as human beings deserve
if you aim your uncovered muzzle to an other individual, i consider that the same as pointing a gun to someone’s head…
oops, there was one in the chamber… accident ?

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#75

Here is an article that is worth a read. I think it does a good job of explaining the science - and it does admit that there is still uncertainty because the science is never as black and white as we would like.

That Npr article references this study, which did a big meta-analysis of mask wearing for Covid, SARS and MERS. It is a bit over my pay-grade, but does suggest that masks and distancing do offer benefits
.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext#%20

I agree with Steve, that there are masks and then there are Masks. If you pull your t-shirt over your nose, you are probably not doing a whole lot of good to anyone. But, I think it is a poor argument to say that since some masks do not work, or that all masks do not work perfectly, we should not wear any masks at all.

Imagine that instead we were talking about seat belts. A head-on collision at freeway speeds is likely going to be fatal regardless of whether you buckled up - so the analogous argument would be to say “Look, seat belts dont work, people still die, and they chafe my neck, so I am just not going to wear one.” The only difference is that seat belts only save you, so really it would be more like going around and cutting all the seat belts out of other peoples cars. For their own good. You wouldnt want them to have chafed necks.

I think it is important to realize that masks do have limitations. If there were enough n-95s for everyone to wear one, that would be the ideal solution (although it would still not be perfect, of course). If we think about all other forms of masks as having some sort of n- rating, wouldnt an n-50 be preferable to an n-0? Wouldnt wearing your seat belt half of the time be better than never wearing it?

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#76

The size of the covid virus is between 50 and 200 nanometers. Way smaller than the weave of any fabric you can make a mask out of. I see a lot of people wearing bandana’s over their mouths and noses. They do not even stop the dust. I don’t care if everyone wears a mask forever. At least it would hide some of the ugly in the world.

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#77

The particle is that small, but it mostly travels on water droplets or mist from exhaling or coughing, which is bigger so n95 can catch the virus by itself, but you really only need to trap the water droplets to be mostly effective.

You can have Covid, and are able to spread it without knowing you actually have it. This is where -any- mask really helps, along with social distancing. Because the ‘say it; don’t spray it’ problems get caught in the mask, and velocity of the particles is considerably reduced.

It also keeps people hands off their face, which is fairly common transmission method, you touch something, then touch your face.

It also serves as a reminder to keep social distancing and such.

Where I would agree is they aren’t 100%, but even a 20% reduction is risk along with the reduction in the other two attack vectors is pretty good for just a cheap piece of cloth.

The asians actually had a head start because they mostly started wearing masks for the avian bird flu, so they had them stocked up.

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#78

We are all reasonably intelligent people: It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that anything over the nose and mouth which slows down the projection of mist coming from our nose and mouth is going to limit the spread of a disease spread mainly by the projection of mist coming from our nose and mouth, and unless you are using a “mask” which doesn’t allow air to go through, you will hardly be breathing any more carbon dioxide than usual—certainly not enough to hurt. I don’t like wearing a mask, but I do it anyway.

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#79

Here’s my thoughts, I can agree masks help,if so, why are we wrecking the economy. Also when this is all said and done, I want to see real numbers of deaths caused by the shut down, I suspect it will be much higher than deaths from the virus.

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#80

Mr. Tom, I know you don’t like long posts, but I hope you’ll read this one. If not, no matter either. I don’t have time to spend everyday on the computer these days, Just mostly Sunday afternoons…so maybe consider this a week’s worth of posts. LOL. :grin:

I’m probably just a dumb redneck, but virtually every plague in history has been dealt with according to the following principles. I know the source is no longer in vogue, but as for me and my house, we’ll stick with it.
It calls for quarantining the sick, as has always been considered common sense. It does not call for quarantining the healthy.

It calls for investigatory effort to verify that a man is sick. A removal of that person from society for a period of time (7 days), to see how the plague progresses.
Then a re-visitation after 7 days to verify again. And then another 7 days to make certain. It calls for cleansing the surroundings and clothing, either with fire, if they are very polluted, or by washing them twice, if they don’t appear to be greatly polluted. It calls for the infected person to stay quarantined as long as he is a threat to the society around him.

This is the method we have used for every plague in history, even the recent H1N1.

It does not call for the destruction of civilization to live in fear and dread over getting a disease that has a 99.++% survivability rate. That is called behavioral modification. It is the current method for those who war against this source to control the “sheeple”.

There is common sense that says that something is probably better than nothing when it comes to masks. But the difference is quite negligible. The science does not support the claim that we should be beating up, prosecuting, persecuting, looking down on, hating or otherwise making a big deal out of someone choosing not to wear a mask. Especially in America, where our basic premise for brotherhood is personal liberty.

Cloth doesn’t work at all. Most masks being worn by most people in this country come in boxes marked “not appropriate for medical use”. A year ago, if someone had used such a mask for this purpose, they would have been sued for malpractice. It is a ridiculous power grab. Behavioral modification. Watch what comes next…

I’ll stick with the following, it’s as good a hill as any to die on:

45 And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean.

46 All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be.

47 The garment also that the plague of leprosy is in, whether it be a woollen garment, or a linen garment;

48 Whether it be in the warp, or woof; of linen, or of woollen; whether in a skin, or in any thing made of skin;

49 And if the plague be greenish or reddish in the garment, or in the skin, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin; it is a plague of leprosy, and shall be shewed unto the priest:

50 And the priest shall look upon the plague, and shut up it that hath the plague seven days:

51 And he shall look on the plague on the seventh day: if the plague be spread in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in a skin, or in any work that is made of skin; the plague is a fretting leprosy; it is unclean.

52 He shall therefore burn that garment, whether warp or woof, in woollen or in linen, or any thing of skin, wherein the plague is: for it is a fretting leprosy; it shall be burnt in the fire.

53 And if the priest shall look, and, behold, the plague be not spread in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin;

54 Then the priest shall command that they wash the thing wherein the plague is, and he shall shut it up seven days more:

55 And the priest shall look on the plague, after that it is washed: and, behold, if the plague have not changed his colour, and the plague be not spread; it is unclean; thou shalt burn it in the fire; it is fret inward, whether it be bare within or without.

56 And if the priest look, and, behold, the plague be somewhat dark after the washing of it; then he shall rend it out of the garment, or out of the skin, or out of the warp, or out of the woof:

57 And if it appear still in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin; it is a spreading plague: thou shalt burn that wherein the plague is with fire.

58 And the garment, either warp, or woof, or whatsoever thing of skin it be, which thou shalt wash, if the plague be departed from them, then it shall be washed the second time, and shall be clean.

59 This is the law of the plague of leprosy in a garment of woollen or linen, either in the warp, or woof, or any thing of skins, to pronounce it clean, or to pronounce it unclean.

Al’s right, if 95% of Americans are wearing masks, and if masks work, why are we still having a problem?
Also, legal mandates for masks effectively stopping the spread of COVID is about as sensible as strict gun control laws in Chicago, NY, and Los Angeles stopping violent gun crime. It obviously doesn’t.

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#81

The -biggest- difference is with covid, you can be sick and not show any symptoms at all and are able to spread it. The plague, the flu, etc when you have symptoms you can spread it, but not before. This makes things like contact tracing extremely difficult because if you do start to show symptoms, you could have been spreading it for the last 3-4 days, not the last 12-24 hours. Not only does the number of people greatly multiply, people forget they stopped to get gas, or some other trivial thing.

The second issue is it spreads very easily and rapidly.

To use your theory of removing from society, well we are trying to do that, but in reality you have no way of knowing.

Do pieces of cloth work? to some extent yes. Are they a flippin pain? yes. Are they 100%? No not even close.

1 Like
#82

Steve B.
I agree. I have recently heard a couple good news stories of masks helping limit spread of C-19 to other people by people who had it and did not know it. These were not scientific by any means, just by observation: “hey: that did help!”. The stories were told by real, Christian medical doctors who would not benefit from vaccine royalties. I am NOT in favor of mask wearing laws / mandates. This is the USA. I have been wearing one more, when I go into a store that requires them (their private property right to request) or when I am in church (our pastor requests) or when I am in a public space where distancing is difficult. I still dislike them, and find them uncomfortable at any speed. :stuck_out_tongue:

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#83

You can have leprosy without showing symptoms also. But that’s not the point.

June 9 2020 the WHO changed their position on this fact and issued a statement saying that although it is possible to have asymptomatic transmission, it is very rare. Other health orgs followed suit. Others said they were wrong, but offered no evidence, just fear mongering.

June 10 2020, WHO tried to walk back the claim by denying their own facts because of political pressure.
Stating, with as much ambiguity and butchery of the English language as possible, “The majority of transmission that we know about is that people who have symptoms transmit the virus to other people through infectious droplets,” Van Kerkhove said. “But there are a subset of people who don’t develop symptoms, and to truly understand how many people don’t have symptoms, we don’t actually have that answer yet.”

So, they say that of the information that they actually have, real proof, THE MAJORITY OF TRANSMISSION THAT THEY ACTUALLY KNOW ABOUT, comes form symptomatic people.
And AMONG THE ENDLESS INFORMATION THAT THEY DON’T KNOW ABOUT is how much asymptomatic transmission is occurring. Why on earth should we be acting as if your statement above is true when the most definite they can be is, “We don’t actually know yet.” ?

One day their scientists say it is “very rare”.
The next day their political face spokesperson, under extreme political pressure, says, “We don’t know yet.”

This scenario has played out around the world in one organization after another for half the year now. No thanks, I’ll stick with scriptures.

I notice you are claiming 3-4 days instead of 12-24 hours. When I was tested for it in the spring, they said 14-21 days.
Even if it is 3-4 instead of 1-2 days. I don’t think it is worthy of the extreme measures we are taking as a society. Also, I noticed you didn’t respond to my mention of a 99.++% survivability rate. Yes there is some debate over the placement of the decimal point. Maybe it’s 99.89% or maybe just 99.67% depending on your test group and which positives and negative test numebrs made it into the data group, but we’re still talking about less than .5% in any case.

COVID sucks and to die from it sucks. But Al is right. Lots of people dying from the “cure” on this one too. Steve U reported months ago of the increased suicide rates in his part of the world. My people in Congo who were not allowed to go to the fields to plant with the rains because of COVID are now starting to suffer food scarcity. Global shipping, supply chain problems are causing hundreds of millions to suffer. Something like 83% of restaurant owners in NYCity can not make their rent payments, and of those, 71% (I think) of landlords are not willing to extend more grace. Huge economic collapses world wide. Educational systems in chaos. Arguably, COVID has had a significant effect on social unrest in the US, Europe, etc. Not to mention the who-knows-what-affect this all has on the coming war between the USA, Australia, China, etc…All over approximately 0.5% ???

I just have no faith in the “experts” in the system anymore. Yes, COVID sucks. And yes, unfortunately some people are going to die from it. And yes, if there was something we could do to stop it that was ethical/moral, we should probably do it.
I’m just not sold on the idea that wearing a mask out of a box that says it is not meant for medical purposes is actually going to do anything significant. And I am completely convinced that the bandana that I use when I just have to comply with the store policy in order to shop there, does quite a bit less yet.
Sorry Koen, madflower69, I don’t accept your premise, but I still love you. I think it just makes people feel better. Folks feel loved because you “care enough to wear a mask for them.” even though it isn’t actually doing as much as they “feel” that it is.

Come to think of it, feeling that way might help with the social unrest and divisiveness…??? Funny, it used to be that the bad guys wore masks: terrorists, the villains in cowboy movies, bank robbers, antifa idiots, clan idiots, burglars…HMMMM? Funny thing at the bank these days. They have two signs on the two doors. One says “Masks are required to enter”, The one right next to it says, “No entry while wearing sunglasses, masks, or hoods.” I guess they have one door for each persuasion.

But I’ve rattled on long enough…Gotta get back to it. :relaxed:

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#84

These are all sensible points of view expressed by people who have obviously given a lot of thought to this. I’m old and I tend to get a little grouchy. I don’t like being steered though a place like a cow on a cattle drive and I don’t like floors painted telling me where I have to stand. It all just tells me that I’m in the middle of a huge experiment to see how compliant I can be made and what my breaking point is. If the purpose is to save lives then, and I can only speak for Michigan, why when the lock downs were in place and all non-emergency medical procedures were not allow, was there no lock down or restrictions on abortion clinics? Must be because abortion is the Democrats sacred cow. The World Health Organization which is currently headed by a acknowledged communist who was put in that position with heavy Chinese lobbying has flip flopped on everything so many times I can’t keep track.

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#85

We don’t know a lot about the virus. I fully 100% agree. It is part of the misinformation. They were hoping it would be like the seasonal flu and slow down during the summer, and that didn’t happen.

I don’t think anyone will argue this point either. It does protect your nose and mouth if someone coughs directly at you. It helps prevent you from touching your nose and mouth, with your fingers after touching anything. Or at least makes you think twice about it. Crap, I hate wearing the thing. I cut the time in the store in half because of it. Oh wait, the mask is working, my exposure time just got cut in half. In my case, I also get more pretty ladies looking at me. :stuck_out_tongue:

It is cheap and easy. There aren’t many things that are cheap and easy that can be used to combat this. There still aren’t enough n-95 masks available for everyone. Health professionals may still have a shortage. You can do nothing, or you can wear a mask and it will help a little which is the best we have.

The faster we get it under control, the faster they can open up the economy. Had we acted immediately, it might not have been a widespread issue. Both parties are to blame along with the American public.

Oh probably not best to get me started on that. I am on a 3-day suspension from a “race issues” group of alt-left people for pissing off admins which they keep calling me racist. It was either pointing out the KKK wasn’t the only violent racist group, and the Nation of Islam is as well. OR that part of the perceived racism in the US is actually socio-economic. IE the same crap happens to all lower income people, and the admin couldn’t defend his point. They didn’t say. But that particular group has led me to come to the conclusion, BLM is possibly a splinter group of the Nation of Islam. The irony is, I don’t have an issue with various races.

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#86

Billy, I do like your last paragraph. What strange times we live in.

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#87

Watch the video I put above, it explains how this all ties together.

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#88

I watched part of it. I will try to watch more later… If you believe agenda 2030…
My first question is how do you -beat- the virus which undermines agenda 2030?

To me to beat agenda 2030 is to get rid of the virus as fast as possible. Wear masks, stay at home, etc. If we could have all done that and shut down the borders for a month immediately, then we could have it beat quickly. -OR- you can go the other way, and everyone gets it, and hope herd immunity works (which is may for a short bit but this virus mutates fast)

Second, the green new deal was a scam from some other country, not even familiar with the changes we put into place under Obama nor familiar with the goals. It was half-baked at best.

For a fact, Obama’s energy/global warming plan wasn’t Agenda 2030. He actually worked with carter, bush and bush who had all done work for energy security for our country. They all got screwed over because they mucked with the US energy policy. And someones jacked up oil prices on them which help tank our economy.

If anything, it leverages Agenda 2030, because it was a 30 year plan, which means we aren’t in a huge rush and other countries can eat the early adopter costs via their mandates. Because NA pays the least for energy out of the rest of the world, products that aren’t cost competitive here can be cost competitive elsewhere.

Is Covid the new way to tank the economy because they can’t do it with oil prices anymore because Obama one upped them? I doubt it… I think covid escaped their lab, and had mutated to where it was infectious to humans. Some of the first reports I heard were about how fast it mutated. I believe it is being leveraged by both the left and the right which is confusing everyone. One side wants to eradicate it, the other side wants to let it do it’s thing. Everyone wants it over.

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#89

Al, very difficult to get to know what the truth is. Watched 17 min and I disagree on many points, but does that make a diff? Is Covid from nature or made in a lab? Don’t know. Does it make a diff? Don’t think so. Society today is very global and any decease spreads out quickly. Back to local again is best to avoid problems. Conspiracy? Yes, it will be done by the filthy riche. BLM? That is very strange for me to, what is going on. We are all slaves of the filthy riche, but having a rather good life compared to 500 years ago. So, who is complaining? Just give me a good live and I keep paying taxes. Death and taxes are the two things you can’t run away from.

Economic crisis? If you work in horeca or related maybe. Construction business is crazy again overhere. People stay home , want a new kitchen, etc. people have to eat, supermarkets double etc. We don’t know which way it is going.

In short, solar is great, like Jeff said, solargas is great. That makes you independent. That is my goal, then the same with food. I know, stupid, it should go the other way around. And then it doesnot matter much what happens.

Stay save you all.

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#90

Joep,
I don’t know about the rest of the world, be thankful for what you have. There is no doubt in my mind, living here, that some organized, dark force is trying to tank the USA economy, mostly by ruining small, independent businesses (everywhere), and rendering citizens hard-earned savings, property investments, (your home) and retirement funds null, so we will all be dependent on a new socialist-styled government. Plus, they are stomping all over our constitutional rights, like freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion, etc. That is what is making a Patriot’s blood boil. :broken_heart:

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#91

Hi Mike,

The farmer has his cow’s…
The cow’s need to give to the farmer…
The farmer controls the food, water, the hunger…
the farmer slaughters the cow that gets independent…

Now compare…
Government and you…

Our problem: to many farmers… :grin: or at least a few cow’s that wannabe farmer but in reality are just as smart as a donkey…

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#92

I would need to see a source for that.
From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus.Jun 11, 2019

https://www.cdc.gov › flu › 2009-h…

2009 H1N1 Pandemic (H1N1pdm09 virus) - CDC

The CDC numbers show that Covid is far more deadly in the USA as it has killed over 165,000 in less than half the time that H1N1 is credited with killing 12,469. 165,000 > 12,469 clearly anyone can understand the relationship between those two numbers. Not to mention that covid is expected to about double the death toll between now and December according to the latest estimates for the USA.

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