I agree. 
We as in someone in the group, will get one to run.
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I think we’re eventually going to land on something similar to the Microsquirt platform. Instead of trying to modify the stock computer, just replace it with a simpler one. Microsquirt is a DIY tunable ECU. You can either solder the board yourself or buy it pre-built for a few hundred bucks. It handles a full fuel map and ignition map, with additional outputs and inputs that could read temperature sensors for the gasifier. Automatic transmissions will need a second controller to act as the TCM, then links up with the first one over CANBUS.
We may be able to build one good basic woodgas-friendly tune, and customize it for various vehicle platforms.
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I think it’s worth noting, by “newer trucks”, no one is proposing, “After you spend $60K on a donor and $30K more on performance upgrades, then it’s time to get started on the gasifier.”
I don’t know enough about this tech to know what the chronological sweet spot will be, but I can guarantee it will be the early or middle of the run, which stretches back to 1997. All of the performance upgrades are simply a nice option largely not available for the Magnum V8s. Due to availability, at this point, its likely you’ll be able to find an LS-equipped truck for the same price or less than a V8 Dakota.
Woodgasers tend to be smart, frugal folks. Experimenting with another engine is not going to change that.
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Jakob I completely forgot that @DeanL has converted a 6L 2007 GMC 2500 to run on woodgas. I think using his modified Ben Peterson and a single 2" line he’s managed 55mph easy. Not sure if it’s a true LS or what though.
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300 bucks, and not road legal at all. The best I could find is it is based on an nxp MC9S12C64 16-bit controller with 64k flash and 4k ram, and came out in 2009.
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Anyone tried tunerstudio on the factory ECU?
it comes in windows, linux, macos and android flavors, but I think the pro version offers more features, and MAY be the one that is needed.
It appears as though speeduino was ported to the STM32 boards. They are like 30 bucks on aliexpress.
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If I were to do this, I think I would start here.
Sean? Is there a better CAN integration board?
Sadly, I have never seen, under the hood of a new vehicle. I have a 2005 Chrysler minivan, but the wife keeps that in constant motion. The youngest boy drives a 1995 pickup. I believe that is OBD1.
We did buy a newer junker truck some years ago, but I don’t know what year it is.
As an armchair exercise, this sounds like fun.
Personally, I am looking for a pre1964 so I don’t have to wear seat belts. Presently, I drive either a 1983 Dodge D200 or a 1985 IH S1600.
I used to drive a 2000 Super duty with a 7.3 IH engine. I liked it, but it quit on Quincy Hill, and had to be towed home. They say it’s probably a sensor. I haven’t pursued it because I am still working on vision/target acquisition code for the robot at school. Behind that is the Meshtastic MQTT sensors and their deployment. So learning automotive CAN hasn’t been a priority in sight yet. That’s why I shifted to the S1600. It cost me less than $2500 to buy it and put it on the road, even with a declared 26000lb plate.
That’s why I am a bit skeptical about the premise of this thread. Money and time. I would be terrified if I paid for a new truck and it’s intake looked like Mike’s or Wayne’s. Maybe that’s where to start? Building adequate filtration?
My burning question is, can the eproms or whatever flash memory these automotive computers have, be reflashed? It looks like yes, but the devil is in the details.
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Their website states “Factory OEM and OBD2 not supported!!!” on the ordering page. It’s intended for programming Megasquirt/Microsquirt and Speeduino ECUs. These are made to be flashed over and over again, where the stock ones are not.
https://www.efianalytics.com/register/viewProduct.jsp?productCode=TunerStudioMSUltra
Folks, I think we need to step back from the discussion about “should you do this”… There is a whole separate discussion to be had about what’s the best approach. But ultimately each woodgasser has to work with what’s available to them. In some areas of the US, 92-96 V8 Dodge Dakotas were/are plentiful, and it’s easier to follow Wayne’s layout than to innovate. Indeed there isn’t another factory-stock V8 light truck that I know of. Your other choices are to engine swap, or deal with the stock power output of a 4 or 6 cylinder. I think we should embrace the swap, its not that hard to do. If you can build a gasifier and mount it to a truck, you can swap a motor. Gauges and controls are the hard part, but not impossible.
Let’s set aside the notion of “this isn’t the right approach, just get a Dakota”… those who can do that, are doing so. If you instead have access to very old vehicles with carburetors, you’ll be learning to make those work instead. That at least gets you around emissions. But a lot of folks are surrounded by cheaper newer vehicles. The discussion at hand is, what vehicles from 96 onward are candidates for conversion? For a lot of folks there are few other options.
This is also not about money. Those of us in this to save money are used to working with 30+ year old vehicles regularly, gasoline or otherwise. But the market has shifted to where a mid-90s truck may cost the same or more than one from the mid-00s or even early 10’s. I just paid $2,000 for a 2004 Suburban 2500 6.0L 4x4 truck. The body is rough, frame is solid, engine runs perfect. I can’t get anything comparable from the 90’s for less than that, and I wanted into the newer platform anyhow. I’ve owned the 90’s versions and they have their own problems. I feel confident I could run woodgas on this vehicle with no major issues, except where to mount it… It’s not a pickup. Maybe a swingaway bumper mount.
But what about the folks that aren’t here to save money? This is freedom fuel, but not free fuel. It all costs time and money anyhow. I’m not talking about spending 50K, but maybe around 15K. What is the best woodgas vehicle option in that price range? I bet that opens up the market beyond 90’s Dakotas. You can get already engine swapped vehicles for a little over that cost, or get the donor + swap an engine for about half or 2/3 of that.
Bottom line, woodgas can run almost anything. Restricting it to mid-90’s Dakotas has never been practical in Europe, and is increasingly less practical here. Let’s explore our other options.
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Hey ChrisKY, for your long chassis Suburban conversion do go view John Stouts long wheel based Ford Van conversion for the concept. On the “Celebrating the Classic Woodgas Vehicle” topic. Drag’nwood YouTube starting at 11:15.
For the reprogramming of the OEM OBDII PCM’s I’ve done nearly 100 thru dealerships.
Look up the PCM pinouts and you see always at least 2-3 actual 12vdc voltage inputs.
Some PCM’s by the time needed to reprogram were obviously only high voltage erasing then rewriting only a section of the PCM. Some turned out (45 minute to over an hour) it was obviously a complete wipe, and rewrite.
I was doing this only up thru 2007. Later very possible the overwrite was more a commanded specific files over-write.
We had new Federal compliance lables we had to apply underhood on to these vehicles.
Two of my “updates” failed; lobotomizing that PCM. One a bad-bad local lighting storm taking down our shops Internet connection at the wrong time. The other: another Tech snatching off the shops Scanner, interrupting; while my back was turned. He got fired.
Both vehicle then down for 7-10 day waiting for a a completely new pre-programmed PCM.
Annual and bi-annual vehicle inspected areas are the real difficulty in using Newer Doner Vehicles.
Here US, Canada, other big geographically areas best approach is to move out of inspected areas.
Country locked in to mandatory inspections then unfortunately you will have to go old, exempt; or an expected minimalist original system as in pre-OBDII’s.
You poke and taunt the Inspection Bears too much, too often, then you’ll get to live in my decades of purgatory.
S.U.
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That sounds like a very interesting project. I’ve been looking for vehicle to convert to wood gas that has seating for several passengers. The suburban was on the top of my list. It would be interesting to see how it turns out.
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I hould have looked that up, I heard that information from a youtube video on performance tuning with a factory ECU. or maybe they changed it so they didn’t get sued by the EPA.
HPTuner is the other one, but Matt tried it, and said it was complicated. It is intended for Speed Shop tech, not the average user.
The Speeduino, seemed like a better option, because it can use a faster processor, has more memory, and has source code available. Which to me, makes it easier to add features like hypermiling, or adding an automixer, or various switches and monitors/logging, etc for the rest of the system. And if someone knew like KiCard printing up a board with connectors on it, having it printed and assembled with components might not be outrageously priced, but I also realize, while I don’t know exactly how to use say KiCAD most have never heard of it.
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I don’t remember what thread Rob383 was discussing this stuff on but I’m thinking that HPTuner was the program he used.
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This?
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Very good writeup Chris!
I think that explains very well what we are looking at with this.
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Chris what year models and vehicles were you thinking about for the LS motors .
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Hey JacobN.
There is a ton of videos out there on LS engines swapping and even books.
Favor the guys who do the least “need to Aftermarket improving” but use adapted over stock systems.
Like this guy:
And this guy:
Just exploring and watching thier channels is an education.
Regards
Steve Unruh
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Anything from 1999-2006 is going to have the non-AFM LS engines. A few nuances will push you towards 2003-up. You have four engine sizes to pick from, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L. Obviously bigger is better for making power, but it depends on your goals. The 5.3 and 6.0 are the most common in the trucks. I’ve got a 6.0 in the 2500 Suburban, and it has plenty of power on gasoline. Way better than the old 350 in my older 1500 Suburban. I’d love to try a 6.0 in a lighter vehicle on woodgas. I also think a 3/4 ton with the 8.1L should rival a V10 Dodge on power output, for a fantastic woodgas work truck.
As far as vehicles, there are plenty of stock vehicles that came with LS motors. Obviously the pickup truck format is the easiest for woodgas. Anything else we’ll have to get creative, like I mentioned with bumper mounts or trailers.
And then there’s swaps, like Steve points out there are tons of people LS-swapping everything you can think of. I have a site bookmarked, seems to be dead now but the wayback machine saved it, this guy figured out all the details for putting LS motors into our Dakotas. Could be interesting for a testbed, the truck itself is a known quantity.
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It would have taken me longer than that to get the connectors unplugged.
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TomH. I learned years ago to spray wet down weatherproof plastic electrical connectors with silicone spray beforehand. Then both sides wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. Then spray again.
Silicone spray up past a wand probe/pick edge lifting on hoses and vacuum lines does wonders too.
I’ll use any brand silicone spray supplied.
Me, buying; I search out and pay more for the WD-40 brand as the wands are pivot head fixed and do not blow off lost forever. Saves a lot of product versus a wide area spraying.
S.U.
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