Not cheaper but they are on sale, and will last longer then lead acid. If you factor in lifetime, they are cheaper. They do not work below freezing if that is an issue.
Their 12v offerings supposedly work in a series parallel configuration, but I don’t know to what voltage. They are also expensive.
There was another link I thought I posted with another place that sold the lifep batteries that might be cheaper. But I forgot the name of the place.
I haven’t use one but this video shows what is inside the box on those dropping battery packs.
If I could live with the limitation of not using it below 0c or 32f for those who use both systems I would probably just buy the lifepo4 cells and the BMS myself it is alot cheaper to build the system and you get to track down what fits in your system space and storage capacity.
Battery hookup in the USA or Canada seems to have the best deals on used or surplus batteries I have found. They are upfront about what you are getting which from what I can tell is not always the case with things bought from Aliexpress.
When it comes to charging lithium batteries I would spend the money to buy a voltage appropriate charger inverter combo. You get the advantage of having AC available from the lithium batteries with these setups. Not the cheapest solution but it seems worth while to me and you know it is designed for lithium. I wouldn’t feel safe even with a BMS charging lithium on a charger built for lead acid. Too many differences in the cells and too many different ways a lead acid charger can be designed.
If you want to use it in the winter time I haven’t found a good cost effective alternative to lead acid. Batteries simply don’t like cold.
That said there is an alternative to lead acid that is worth considering but the cost is higher.
Sodium silicate Bolt Ultra Batteries will be a true drop in to lead acid batteries. The are basically a lead sodium battery as apposed to lead acid. They have decent cold weather performance but the cost is higher than lithium today but lower than lead if you count cycle life. Atleast that is how it looks from a quick glance. I am thinking about a project about the size of a golf cart but I want to run it outside in the winter. That seems to be a big ask of any battery system.
The other option for cold temperatures is LTO but you have to plan on cycling them alot to make it worth the price. 30,000 cycles will hide alot of cost which is good because they are definitely the most expensive up front. Also a very safe battery. I am personally up in the air at the moment as to what I will do with my project because of the costs. But I have till fall to think it over as it wouldn’t be a summer project this year anyway. In an EV they include heating of the batteries for cold weather. I have to wonder what the true winter energy consumption and cycles used is with that setup. But I guess if you have a 300 mile range maybe the heating is a small load. An EV has a lot of energy stored in the battery to start with.
But for a small project or golf cart that doesn’t seem like an option. It would be cheaper to store the vehicle in a heated space for charging I suspect than to simply heat the battery with electricity.
Hopefully that was helpful
I worked on a project using lithium in the winter. The end solution was putting them in an insulated box and having a 100 watt heater designed for electronics in with them. Between the insulation and the natural heat of the charge discharge cycles we calculated less than 1kW hr per 24hrs at no heat -30 c outside temperature. It was seen as worth it due to the huge fuel savings for generator charging.
Thanks David I was just wondering how much heat would be needed in that type of setup. Do you remember the R value you used on that project?
Hey dan, it was 2 inches of foil faced foam so roughly r14. The big thing was keeping it out of the wind and making sure you could vent it in the summer or dismantle the box. Approx 1kW hr per day or less was the goal. At the time simpliphi did not have a heating solution. I have not checked recently but they probably have it worked out by now. They were going to build in a heating mat and use the already onboard thermostat and run it through the BMS. It’s a pain but I think worth it. less absorption charging and equalization charging faster charge cycling, longer life then lead. All the better stationary systems are using the lithium iron cells.
Thank all of you for this. I will digest this and see what I like.
I should have said I am in a snow belt at 47°N. I always park the vehicles, and bring the batteries inside a heated space for the winter. We get 200" to 350" per year so a golf cart in Feb is ludicrous.
Dan, definitely agree about aliexpress… they are fading. They are trying to sneak in shipping costs, and different pricing shenanigans, to make their filters give better results. eBay did the same thing some years ago.
Also agree that the correct charger needs to be deployed along side the battery pack. I fear I will get dragged into learning about this. I feel like a steam engineer getting dragged into fixing my wife’s curved dash Olds.
The carts aren’t for driving. They are portable solar power plants. The boys and I use electric chainsaws. We take the carts to the trees. The carts also provide carpentry power.
I suppose ultimately there will be some.sort of wood fueled generator involved, but that’s down the trail a bit yet.
Thanks for the tips guys!
Looking for a small cheap 12v charge controller for lion cells. I am building a dusk to dawn solar charged light. If any one knows of one please let me know.
You could install the batteries in an enclosure below grade, below the frost line. Lithium can take some cold just not that cold. The thermal mass of the earth is a pretty reliable buffer.
You have to be careful with Lifepo4 not to charge then too fast below freezing and the manufacturer is really the only one who knows the limits for their chemistry. But basically when the cells get too cold the lithium will electro plate on the wrong side of the cell with the added power instead of storing the energy. Discharging isn’t ever a problem you just get less avable energy as the cold basically slows down the energy transfer of the batteries. As far as I know lithium ion doesn’t suffer the plating issue that kills lifepo4 cells in the cold but it simply won’t accept or release energy when the cells get too cold.
LTO is bulky but doesn’t have the cold issues and has crazy high cycle life 20,000 to 30,000 vs 500 IIRC for lithium ion and 2,000 for lifepo4.
I have gone down this route.
I started researching lithium batteries and I found that Electric Vehicle batteries were the best deal.
I now have 5 KWH in a Tesla battery, and 18 KWH in another Chevy Volt batteries.
I am now off grid with solar powering these batteries and running my AC off it. I have 4,000 watts of solar, and I just ordered another 4,000 watts… I use propane for heating water but it is so nice to not have that $30.00 a month connection fee from the electric company.
Found an interesting store in my home state. Was thinking about building two batteries to replace my two lead acides. Frustrating because of so many options. So I was thinking about making a small play battery from ten of these. Should be able to charge with one solar panel as long as I don’t over due the current. They are low current but have a BMS installed. There is a nice $10 case that they have also. Any thoughts?
I have bought my batteries from there, you can pick up directly from their location. I recommend a BMS for your setup so you can keep an eye on the setup. I am part of a site that specializes in working with different combinations of these I would recommend joining and reading thru other people’s builds → https://diysolarforum.com
Mart,
Thanks, I’ll do just that.
Plus one to Battery Hookup. I bought some of the big 8ah 200 amp discharge lifepo4 batts from them and they really make my ebike zip. Had to buy busbars and make a bracket to securely hold the cells.
Looks like a good choice. I’ll order some of these instead. Looks like no BMS in stock. Oh well, I’ll stock up on the batteries first then wait for the BMS to show up. Looks like a lot of bang for the buck. 
Hmmm, did some math.
At the local hardware store I can purchase an expensive pure lead AGM battery for $340.It is 100Ah.
I like to use Watts, so 100Ah = 1200Wh for AGM local sourced.
The 8Ah lithium would be 8A X 3.2V = 25.6Wh
So, 1200Ah AGM / 25.6Wh = ~ 47 lithium cells
47 X $9 = $420 for the lithium. Plus the cost of shipping and BMS. Then the time plus some extra parts.
Of course the AGM doesn’t last as long but the lithium are used. Lithium does work well for hand tools and powering wood gas blowers and powering a raspberry and monitor.
For now I’ll wait for them to show up at the hardware store, just a matter of time. Maybe five years from now.
I have been buying the mixed medical batteries from battery hookup for a project. They test really well for the most part. There are definitely dead cells and you have to breakdown the packs plus you need the tester and spot welder. It has a lot of setup cost. But it looks like I can setup 20kwh of storage doing it with used lithium ion batteries and putting them in 50 cal ammo cans for $1500 it is hard to touch that cost wise.
I suspect there will be issues along the way. It comes out to about 3000 cells I will need and I have maybe 1000 now that I have tested. I have another 40 lbs in shipping right now. I figure by spring I should have my battery pack for the electric tractor I am planing.
I think the headways are over priced especially used. Battery Hookup needs to lower the price a bit I think. Otherwise there are way better deals out there.
Another re seller to check out is these guys. Products – Battery Clearing House
With batteries , the same is happening as with solarpanels. They are dropping in price. Maybe it is good to wait a little for big projects.