Sean my train of thought was that the compressor wouldn’t need to run while you cycled hot water from the storage tank into the unit. I would like to use forced hot air as the house is already setup for it. But I was thinking I could just use a zone pump to cycle water from my tank through the heat exchanger which should be a trivial load compared to running the compressor and pumping water through the ground loop. Still digging into it. There is something called a Multi-Function Full-Condensing Water Heating Systems which might be what I want still need to read more. From what I read if I had radiant heated floors I could make that work but I was trying to avoid one more project… this little house already has a oil furnace a gas fireplace and a wood furnace which mom doesn’t want to let me use. So I don’t really want to have to add under the floor heating too…
I don’t think you can bypass the compressor. The compressor may not need to work as hard, and for sure you are pumping less water. But the refrigerant has to work between a certain operating temperature, and too hot could mean too much pressure inside the compressor loop, as well as causing vapor locks and stressing the compressor seals. It most likely would need to be mixed to get into say the 75 degree max range.
With just a normal geothermal system for home heating, it should considerably lower your heating bills. If you can install the loop yourself, you may knock off quite a bit in installation costs.
You could add essentially a secondary radiator for the hot water, then just run the house circulation fan. It could then be two separate systems.
Generally that is how it’s done. Radiator inline with the furnace duct, fan on circulate and two seperate thermostat set points. you could set up parallel systems as well and distribute to less locations with the hot water system and let the circulator fan balance it out. Dan maybe start you own thread or get chris to split this out…
Cheers, David
Has anyone looked into making an earth battery that is usable?
In the late 1800’s and early 1900’s the telegraph companies lines were powered by earth batteries along long stretches of lines in remote areas across the USA.
People have found their remaining parts in the ground along old telegraph routes.
People have built them in recent years. Look on you tube.
Bob
It works sort of. It is a dielectric current so it is slow corrosion. You can get a small current off your plumbing pipes if they are metal to the ground.
Yes my understanding is that you don’t get much more then enough to power a few led lights. I haven’t tried it but I couldn’t see a way to get a usable amount of current.
As to plumbing pipes I would avoid it for fear of increasing the speed at which they fail.
Any one have any new leads on batteries for storage?
I have a lot of their sp cells, but just wanted to see if there was anything else out there. Been thinking about re configuring ev battery cells. I just ran upon these. Lion Safari UT 1300 - Lion Energy
Wow thats really expensive. Those pack cells you have are much cheaper. I can build a system three times this storage with those cells for the same price.
Dakota Lithium is comparable or maybe slightly less then lionenergy. The LiFeP batteries are seemingly a better match for a number of applications over lion.
Out of my element here, but I have been researching this lately. I got a lot of information from this guys you-tubes. He looks like it but I’m pretty sure he’s not really fourteen years old.
There is a lot of negatives to lead acid batteries. Old Tech, but out of all the options they are the only ones I have researched that can be rebuilt or built by the average person. I found this book helpful.
I been on both sites, and have bought some cells. What I would like to know is which batteries they have are the best for storage. I have been thinking about used ev batteries they seem like a less expensive alternative.
Wall-of-text time.
I definitely prefer used EV batteries, compared to the huge time/effort to salvage+test small cells and assemble them into packs. I just don’t have the time (kids, etc). My current favorite are BMW i3 modules. They’re built like utter tanks, already w/ a convenient # of cells, and they can take a ton of abuse. A handful of these easily power a small shop or large home loads with appropriately beefy inverter.
Most often I find it better to think about the usage side of the equation vs the storage end. Power and environmentals alike (temp). Combining LTO with one of the others is helpful if you need to operate in low temps, but things get complicated.
- Li-ion/lipo are generally really good for use cases that are very bursty, able to handle large, high current loads. They have good energy-to-weight ratios. They’re more volatile chemistry and where you house them probably needs to have precautions for fire…Lithium fires are nasty. For some safety, I house an array of these in a modified Jobox/Knaack site toolbox. Must be > 32F/0C for charging.
- LiFePO4 are generally less capable of bursty loads; they’re best for gentle continuous use. They’re much heavier in terms of energy-to-weight, for the same capacity compared to li-ion/lipo. However, these are very safe batteries. I feel comfortable housing them in my house.
- LTO is a more specialized, less common chemistry that is incredibly capable of rapid charging and favorable low temperature performance. In comparison with LiFePO4 and Li-ion/Lipo which must be warm, these can operate < 32F/0C safely.
I also have a bank of 80 year old Edison batteries, still humming along happily like they came from the factory. These outshine modern lithium in several respects, but they’re indestructible and will still work for my grandchildren someday.
If using multiple chemistries seems odd, it’s because I subscribe to the same notion @Matt often espouses: I find multiple small systems are easier/more robust than one large system. I can take banks offline, replace inverters, etc., and nothing skips a beat. Grid tie inverters (and panel microinverters) CAN be used off grid…
I have been looking for Edisons, no luck yet.
If you are worried about shit hitting the fan or a prepper as Gary suggested, I would go with the Edison batteries. They last about forever, and I believe their electrolyte can be made from wood ash and they can be run to zero without any harmful effect. They have a few drawbacks. They have to be kept above about freezing, they only hold a charge for 30 days, and are only about 55% efficient and they offgas hydrogen and need to be topped off with water every so often. Making the nickel used for them is an expensive and fairly complicated process.
Lead acid batteries usually only last around 300 charge cycles, deep cycles can last longer but that is just a matter of the number/size of the plates. They don’t handle charge to less then 50% very well. They are like 75-80% efficient. A lot of times they die because of the lead build up bridges across the gaps typically from the bottom to short out the cell. in which case they can be rejuvenated for a while, but other times the plate just falls off to short it and rejuvenating doesn’t work. If you are worried about shit, hitting the fan, then you have to figure out where you will get sulfuric acid.
Most lithium batteries are at least double the charge cycles and have efficiencies up in the 90% range. There are several different chemistries of just lion batteries some are optimized for storage applications and some for automotive. Even within those two major sub-categories the chemistries aren’t the same between manufacturers.
I think I mentioned LiFeP before, they are actually used in a lot of chinese EVs. The trick here is they aren’t as light, and they don’t handle fast discharge very well. (your pump application is most likely continuous draw.) However, they can last 2k charge cycles, and you can get them as drop in replacements for a LA battery system. They handle 100% depth of discharge with no ill effects, and are 95+% efficient at cell level. (if you are using them as a drop in replacement to an existing LA system, because LA only draws to 50% depth of discharge, you effectively double the number of charge cycles)