Thrive Off Grid

Small Engines
#949

This is very deep science. An electrolysis cell is very much like a battery cell. There are limits to voltage. For instance your typical AA battery operates at 1.5 volts. You then have a charge limit and a low voltage limit. An electrolysis cell is much the same way. A typical cell operates best at 2.2 volts. Then there are issues with the magnetic fields and voltage leakage of the plates. As one side is exposed to the negative ions while the other is exposed to positive ions. The center is a direct short if the electrolyte is shared between sides. This creates losses in heat. Until there is some sort of break thru technology electrolysis will never be a good source of hydrogen.

This here is a very high efficient hydrogen cell system. This has manifolds that are machined specifically to eliminate edge exposure. Each cell tube ran at 2.2 volt of a shared 14 + volt input running at around 40 amps. It had an MMW rating of 6.5 and was a true rating unlike most others that produce more steam than HHO. This is now at a Military base in Germany.

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#950

Finally some warm whether here in Mich. I cranked out the corner sections of the three Fusion Power Gens Im currently building. I will start assembly first thing this week and then back over to the CNC machine build. Hope it stays this way!!

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#951

Electrolytic_cell_img7

I just want to show that it can be simple

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#952

Henry, do you have a working example of this simple method?

Thanks.

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#953

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There was a display at museum of science and industry . You push a button the water in tube is turned into hydrogen and oxygen and then a spark and an explosion , loud and then the tube refills for the next person to push the button .

Often the displays would be out of order , this one was out of order more often . There were deposits in tube . I guess it needed maintenance often .

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#954

i bought a ultraviolet water filter . It lasted less then 8 hours .

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#955

I like the carbon electrode.

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#956

There was a device for purification of water that would make the water so elementally pure it would eventually be poisonous . What would happen in a wood gasifirer if you injected water that was so energized to be a plasma flow ? Probably inject air with this water and read relative humidity or super heat the air ?

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#957

Im planning oxygen with reduced nitrogen with steam injection soon. Im planning just getting a small oxygen tank at first and mixing with atmospheric air at first or possibly and EGR or raw gas re-circulation system to dilute the pure oxygen. Anything but nitrogen. The point will be to achieve higher temperatures for better process along with steam reforming to yield much higher energy dense cleaner gas.

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#958

I think your gasifier and my gasifier and this gasifier all produce gas through the same chemical reactions . I do not think there is anything new here and a steam injected updraft is too difficult .

During World War II, a gas mixture including carbon monoxide was used to keep motor vehicles running in parts of the world where gasoline and diesel fuel were scarce. External (with a few exceptions) charcoal or wood gas generators were fitted, and the mixture of atmospheric nitrogen, hydrogen, carbon monoxide, and small amounts of other gases produced by gasification was piped to a gas mixer. The gas mixture produced by this process is known as wood gas
(Chem.) Carbonic oxide a colorless gas, CO, of a light odor, called more correctly carbon monoxide. It is almost the only definitely known compound in which carbon seems to be divalent. It is a product of the incomplete combustion of carbon, and is an abundant constituent of water gas. It is fatal to animal life, extinguishes combustion, and burns with a pale blue flame, forming carbon dioxide.
An exothermic reaction is a chemical reaction that releases heat. It gives net energy to its surroundings. That is, the energy needed to initiate the reaction is less than the energy released.[2]
When the medium in which the reaction is taking place collects heat, the reaction is exothermic.

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I was exited about someone using a tig welder as a water purification device . I am not sure this works . Supposedly it reduced water to subatomic level and inches from torch you got a mist of chemically pure water like would come out of a fuel cell . I regret posting about it .

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#959

Who did this in 1874 ? I can not find them .

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Matt you want to reduce the nitrogen , pure oxygen would make a blast furnace that would melt ?

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#960

Japan , Germany Hydrogen ridiculousness
TOKYO – One of the world’s largest facilities for producing clean-burning hydrogen marked its opening on Saturday, in a demonstration of northeastern Japan’s revival from the devastating 2011 earthquake and tsunami.

Located in the town of Namie, just north of the ruined Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, the solar-powered hydrogen station can produce enough gas to fill 560 fuel cell vehicles a day.
Officially named the Fukushima Hydrogen Energy Research Field, the facility will serve as a proving ground for technology developed by the New Energy and Industrial Technology Development Organization, a Japanese government agency. Project costs total about 20 billion yen ($189 million).

The facility makes hydrogen by decomposing water, using electricity generated from its solar power plant. It contains a total of 20 megawatt capacity of solar panels in an area of 180,000 sq. kilometers in Fukushima Prefecture.

Hydrogen is considered to be the ultimate zero-emission fuel. Hydrogen made at the plant in Namie will be carried by tanker trucks to consumption areas such as Tokyo.

Produced hydrogen will be first used as fuel during the Olympic-torch relay, starting from March 26, as well as in fuel cell vehicles that will carry Olympians and staff to the Games. The Mirai vehicles, made by Toyota Motor, are said to travel 30% farther compared with the automaker’s conventional fuel cell vehicles when consuming the same amount of hydrogen.

During the Games, hydrogen will also be used as electric power generation at lodging and rest areas in the Olympic Villages.
Germany’s cabinet this week is expected to approve a proposal for a national hydrogen strategy that according to the latest draft seen by Recharge includes a 3-5GW target for electrolyser capacity in the country by 2030.
The VDMA, together with Germany’s hydrogen and fuel cell federation (DWV) and the federation of municipal utilities (VKU), have produced a paper with demands to create the framework conditions needed for a market-based ramp-up of a green hydrogen industry in Europe’s largest economy.
In it, they demand creating a strong domestic market for hydrogen production. For that, the current build-up of renewables is too slow, the federations say.

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#961

Solar to hydrogen is terribly inefficient. Much better off just using the electricity generation directly.

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#962

John Burroughs, Thomas Edison, Harvey Firestone. camping trip at unknown location695ee536a8a28ed7ba9ed26342957b96--theodore-roosevelt-location

I started to say Thomas Edison’s patent for nickle iron battery had expired . The plates in battery were actually steel and nickle plated steel , the electrolyte was lye . Does anyone remember how to make soap ?

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#963

You can buy them from a number of companies. However, they are not very efficient, you only get around 60% out of what you put into them. They will out last you though.

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#964

Lead acid batteries are about 50% efficient. So 60% would actually be very good. Like, you would get 20% more. How confident are you of that 60%?
Rindert

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#965

Would you use reagent grade potassium hydroxide?

Did Edison actually make some sort of gel?
Rindert

#966

Its just what Ive heard from the off grid guys on Youtube. LifePo4 or Lithium are far better that. Lithium are over 90% return.

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#967

I ordered a owners manual for a nickle iron rail road signal battery from ebay for $10
I found a post about the battery on an antique car list from 2010
Antique Automobile Club of America

Here is the scoop on “Battery Oil”

Edison & Others developed the Nickel/Iron storage battery in the 1880s !

Edison, Exide, Willard, and others built & sold them for automotive use.

Edison stated that this battery would last your lifetime !

He was promoting them for Early Electric auto use ~

The Nickel-Iron (NiFe) battery was considered a Life-Long Battery that could last 30-50 years or more!

I was not harmed by deep discharge or repeated cycling charges.

In many ways this battery was superior to the Lead/Acid storage battery we use today as it has a very long life; and could be restored by changing the electrolyte and cleaning the plates !

The battery was built with cells in a glass or ceramic jar with a lid that could be opened .

This was an aklaline battery that used a Potassium Hydroxide caustic soda & distilled water electrolyte with Nickel & Iron (NiFe) plates contained in a glass cell with a rubber top supporting the plates & covering the cells… The cells were connected in series with brass wing nut & wire or copper ribbon strip jumper connections…

The cells were stacked in a wooden crate and hooked-up in series.

Each cell was .8 Volts with 1.2 Volts in later production variants.

Each of the cells could be refreshed or replaced.

Edison sold this battery to the Telephone , Telegraph, Railroads , and for early penny in the slot amusement listening tube phonograph use. You often find old Edison battery jars on eBay !

The Telephone & Telegraph companys had iron battery boxes on their poles with banks of the Edison Nickel/Iron battery in them .

The railroads had iron signal boxes which also contained banks of Edison batteries.

The “Battery Oil” was poured on top of the fresh electrolyte in each cell to prevent evaporation and gassing while charging on these utility poles.

The oil would float on top of the electrolyte to give a thick protective oil film.

This would help the battery gases to re-combine instead of gassing-off while sitting long term, or re-charging. It also prevented evaporation.

You often find empty Edison Battery Oil bottles of 3-4 oz near old railroad iron signal & switch boxes in the woods near the switch & signal boxes today.

The railroad workers would use the oil and then just toss the empty bottles in the woods along side the tracks.

Look for them near the old railroad signal boxes ! You can still find many today !

The railroads and telephone/telegraph COs still used this type of battery well into the 60s-70s in some rural areas in the USA !

Edison Electric Storage Battery Co . built them until 1972~

Exide built them until 1975 !

Folks also collect the bottles, battery jars, and batteries today ! They are not worth very much~

There are 4-5 styles of battery oil bottles used over the years.

I also understand farms used this Edison battery for farm & house lighting before general rural electrification. The battery banks were often connected to a wind mill “Aeromo” generator for re-charging.

The wind mill usually used a Ford or other auto type generator.

These electric set-ups were often sold thru the early Sears catalog ! The farmer’s friend ~

Electric autos & very high-end & high priced gasoline autos often used the Nickel/Iron Edison , Exide, or Willard automotive battery. Many early electric autos Ie: Detroit Electric, Baker, and other auto builders often offered a Nickel/Iron battery bank as a higher price option; As it would last for decades, if not Life-Long!

Deep discharge did not harm this type of battery as it did severly harm a Lead-Acid battery and shortened it’s useful ife. This deep-discharge ability made it perfect for early electric auto carriages !

High priced gasoline autos used them also.

A friend bought a Rolls_Royce Phantom I from the Ford museum a few years ago.

It had not run in fifty+ years or more.

The old Exide Nickel/Iron battery was still in the battery box on the left running board.

My friend got the car up and running with a new modern battery~

He then decided to try to refresh & restore the old (NiFe) Exide battery.

It consisted of a large crate style wooden box with many glass jar cells inside. Each with hard rubber jar lids. Each cell was connected in series to form 6 volts.

He dumped the old electrolyte, and cleaned the plates which were in very good shape.

He then added fresh electrolyte and charged the battery.

It worked !!

Today it is now installed in the Phantom’s battery box and used to actually start and run this Phantom !

It still works fine after all these decades !

And yes~ He did pour a fresh bottle of Edison Battery Oil on top of each battery cell.

If you search hard enough you can still find un-opened Edison battery oil bottles with the famous Edison script autograph cast in the glass bottle on eBay !

TRUE STORY~~~~

Believe it~

Or Not !

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#968

Before I bought lead acid batteries I contacted some company with a contract to salvage bad nisson leaf batteries , They dropped this business because they said it was to hard to do . I wanted to say something about off grid power systems , solar cells , battery . you do not own system but pay for power with app on your phone . I tried to represent this thing with a link to a coin operated gas meter . it was supposed to be coin operated electric meter .

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