Nice I haven’t seen anything like that around here
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Bruce, I had a gasoline Geo Metro just like that, same color even. I want it back!! I have a 1985 VW Rabbit electric car project buried in my junkpile. I paid too much. No, it does not have an engine, just a transaxle. That"s all I have to say about that. 
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Running a Tesla off solar …
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Gosh Mike,
I haven’t actually checked, so this is arm chair speculation, but isn’t everything available for electrifying a Rabbit, available off the shelf?
I jumped at this Geo, because I understand all the technology in it, and I believe that battery technology is catching up fast. This rig has the same tech as the golf cart.
The only business that remains unclear to me is the 144vdc part. I think that puts me in the Schneider electric charge controller regime…$1800 
. I will need 176vdc to charge a series string of 12 AGMs.
The other aspect that is fuzzy, is a generator head to charge 176vdc. The old Lincoln SA200 has a 125vdc circuit, and the main welder circuit goes to 90vdc…I might have to spin some sort 240vac motor and rectify it’s output.
Hmmm
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Bruce, I have a lot of the parts already (some are sub-standard). I should not have even gotten started is my point. It seems to be beyond my abilities to finish any project. I sure can waste time and money, though. 
As far as charging, do you have a 240VAC circuit already? Like for a deep-well pump? It wouldn’t be a fast charger. How about a PTO generator? Just thinking…
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I can not see how an electric car can be built for $500. A quick search of the electric motor (12hp continous 49hp surge) is about $1200.00 and that is just the motor.
Anybody know if 3 HP tread mill motors are really 3 HP. Could they power a golf cart or a table saw?
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Haha, you cant build an EV for 500 dollars. It is also really hard to get much money for used electric vehicles that you built yourself, so a lot of people who start a project never finish it, and then they sell it off at a loss. There are some companies out there making parts for conversions that makes it a lot easier, but for the most part, each conversion is a one-off project.
Also, if it says 3HP on the nameplate, then it should be 3 HP. I have not really played around with treadmill motors, so I am not sure if they have a standard RPM. Being DC, the speed should increase with voltage, so with a PWM controller, you get easy speed control. I suspect they would be spinning a lot slower than a tablesaw motor at their rated voltage.
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The way it could be done is to buy parts from abandoned projects. I know a couple of folks that had a Curtis controller or a proper dc motor for sale cheap. Maybe never used. What stopped me was the cost of the new battery bank. (Guaranteed any old batteries are useless except for core exchange). For my setup, I was thinking 14 (6V) golf cart batteries. Obviously, Bruce got a great deal on his Metro. He still has to buy the batteries, I believe. 
It was Wayne K and DOW that convinced me the best alternative fuel is wood chunks, and nowadays I would just get a used Nissan Leaf for an EV. You must know by now I am a cheapskate and not good at long-term accounting. Still blowing all my experimenting funds at the local Dino-Fuel pump!
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Lol! Full disclosure, Jeff is right, the car was originally $1100. I had asked the owner to show us how to hook up the batteries, but he could not make the time, and ghosted me. I circled back over a month later and confronted him. He agreed to sell it again and offered it for $500 as is where is. He ghosted me again. The motor lists for $1275 without shipping. I remained patient. Then he texted, saying I could come and get it…we spooled up the turbo on the Super Duty and went over immediately and winched it aboard the trailer.
That’s the car story…and on the way, I finally connected with the owners of a 77 Ford 150 w/ a 300 six, and bought it too. It’s not pre emission but pretty simple non the less.
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Hey BruceJ,
I just virtually gifted off my 86 Ford 150HD 4x4 with the 300 cid; HD iron four four speed to a 14 y.o. boy wanting a first project vehicle. And they flat towed off the old 76 F250 for parts for their farm truck too.
Ha! You were to far away to tow it home.
You can lose the feedback carburetor. Lose the EGR system. Back retrofit to a stone simple DuraSpark II ignition system versus the on distributor TIF. And that looses any need for the PCM controller. Even retrofit back to a points distributor.
I gave him a full take out 1981 engine bay wiring harness with attached components to be able to do this.
And it even had a simpler more durable remote regulated alternator versus the weak early used only a few years, Ford piggy-back regulated one.
Great base pickup. Mine was only a true 4070 pounds in factory 4x4.
The 94 F150 2wd is only 3680 pounds. Max loaded GVW of 6050 pounds. Lower loading height saves the back. Auto trans for the old knees; one side bad ankle; opposite side worn hip.
Ah . . . . but to be young again.
Steve Unruh
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I think I saw a pick of that old one Steve. We are at the point where we have to travel to get those rust free bodies.
And ya, it will be retro simplified. I am reimagining my fleet for a simpler tech.
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EV west would have the parts I am pretty sure. The Rabbit should accept a standard motor adaptor they hace in stock. But the price there seems crazy to me for those adaptor plates. I was looking at them for a Chevy V8 replacement thinking of doing a Square body conversion myself as they are pretty common with a 1 ton frame around here that is still solid as people didn’t drive those old trucks too much in the winter. Atleast you can find some that didn’t get too much salt.
IIRC the adaptor alone was $1000 which made me conclude if I make something EV I will target a tractor as I burn more fuel in a tractor these days anyway. I might as well make a custom adaptor myself.
The first thing that comes to mind for cost saving is the solar car I drove back in the 1995 in college had a serries parallel switch for the motor windings. We could switch them from being in serries to being in parallel with one big mechanical switch. I unfortunately don’t remember the wiring diagram off the top of my head but I could easly see how this could be done with batteries with a little creativity to charge them at a lower normal 48 volt configuration then switch them to serries groups to run the motor. The only issue would be to check for a weak battery before switching them to the lower voltage because equalizing currents could be pretty high if one battery is dead and the others are not. But that really seems pretty unlikely unless you have a load only wired across a subset of batteries say by pulling the 12 volts off one battery instead of a buck converter.
I have seen the standard charge controllers for sale at EV west which will allow you to use the charging network which as it is for EVs but I think they tend to be expensive. But they can be programmed for higher voltage systems.
Oh by the way we hooked up one normal lead acid battery charger to each battery in the pack at the same time to charge our 10 batteries all hooked together in serries. IIRC we didn’t need isolation transformers on the AC input to the chargers because the DC voltage was not bonded to the ground circuit the chargers themselves where floating on the DC output side.
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Me too! Carl typed me out of thinking about a car conversion, after reading his EV forum topic. Maybe a small utility machine, but the cost of the motor stops that, that is way I asked about the tread mill motor.
This treadmill motor turns 4725 RPM. I guess I need to get one for testing.
And root:
https://www.surpluscenter.com/shop.axd/Search?keywords=treadmill+motor
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Jeff the reason I am working with the old case ingersoll garden tractors for my EV project is I find them very useful and they run off a simple hydraulic pump. There was a article back in the 80s probably in mother earth news about converting one to Electric because all you need is a DC motor and a switch that can handle the current.
That is the article it doesn’t tell you the important fact of how big a motor you need to run the 12gpm hydraulic pump. Best I can tell a 4kw motor should handle the job but it is a best guess on my part. I guess I will find out as I move forward with my project to make one into a 4 wheel drive machine.
I am trying to avoid the cost and complexity of speed controllers for the motor
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With a V-belt clutch, there would not be any need for a fancy speed control. More so if the motor would not over speed it’s self with no load. A relay or two and resistors would work for starting. I run gas engines at a fixed speed with no problem.
Still, wood is dirt cheap compared to an electric conversion. An electric would have it in a stop and go situation. Where you did not want to keep restarting a gas machine. But then there is the complication of having two types of machines.
A PWM speed controller is dirt simple. Could even build your own. But the motor needs to be DC.
The modern EV has a lot of complications and points of failure. Batteries need BMS and fancy speed controls for AC motors. With the chip shortage, look out for fake faulty chips working their way into these devices. And if things go too pot, good luck finding parts to maintain them.
Interesting stuff.
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The biggest issue I have with the idea of wood gasification is that most if my stuff is short trips around my farm or it is working in my hay field. I keep thinking at some point wood gasification will make sence if for no other reason then to run a generator for my backup power. But this is kind of a testing of the Waters for me. I have tried a few different options on batteries and the best deal I have seen is at battery clearing house.
https://www.batteryclearinghouse.com/products/lot-of-300-panasonic-ncr18650a-cells-in-ring-packs
I have tested just about 150 of those cells so far and all test like new. I am still waiting for the 2 week self discharging test as I just started working with them but after trying other salvage deals they definitely look worth the money to me.
I ordered enough to get me about 20kwh of capacity which will give me about 5 hours runtime and keep my discharge down to 0.2C which is almost nothing for lithium ion.
I have 50 cal amo cases to build the battery packs in which should contain any battery fire if it happens. It is a crazy big project for a small tractor but should work out to be a nice machine when done.
I think if budget allowed I would buy these cells instead.
Lifepo4 are definitely better from safety and cycle life but I was looking really cheap salvage lithium ion when I started which turned out to be expensive because of shrinkage so i decided the cells from battery clearing house where my best bet to finish my project as i have about half the cells i needed when i found that supplier and decided to try those.
I was buying the mixed medical cells from battery hookup but honestly it seems about the same cost or move than the ring cells when you sort out all the shrinkage and different cell capacities.
Anyway that is the adventure I have wander into. I like the idea of using it as portable power as well. Being designed for 20kwh storage I could easily run a decent inverter on it anywhere here on the farm. That alone seems very handy.
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Steve,
Lol, started right up when I repaired the squirrel behavior. Chewed the six wires off the brain box. I happened to still have a spare wire harness stub, and a box…
This vehicle is absolutely ridiculously simple. Three on the tree, no PS.
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I’m guessing those pine needles do a good job of filtering your cabin air Bruce.
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Good morning Mr Tone,
You bring up one very valid electrical car usage factor:
Where you are using it greatly skews the travel distance and battery cycle life’s usages.
Cold. Cold Canadians are finding this out. Not so cold by cold wet,wet western British Columbians are finding this out. .
Needed cabin heat 200-300 days of the year. Needed constant windshield de-misting/defrosting takes heat too. 300 days of the year.
Then us cold and wet needing AC system vehicle interior airs drying out. 200 days of the year.
Internal combustion engines (even assist/charging engines - BMW/Mazda) regardless of the fuel source; these heats are “free”.
Electric vehicle this heat energy come at the cost of travel range. And then hard cycling batteries shortening life.
Stationary is a whole different set of circumstances to calculate.
I’ve done this for decade too.
Easy to fool your self.
I simplify.
EVERY change/use step I see picture de-rate energy by 10%. And this is generously assuming 90% efficiencies at each step. Many are only 60-80% efficient.
Count a fellows steps to know his actual use/efficiency.
Stationary you are absolutely correct: any recovered heat can be put to some useable purpose and counts as a positive.
Mobile/vehicle is different.
Now just how really full cycle watts efficient are those National electric transit trains?
Hydro-electric; Nuclear power plant to human bodies transported? 30% transmission heat losses? And those human bodies NOT even to home doorstep transported.
Regards
Steve Unruh
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