Electric battery cycle life is no different than an ICE engine cycle life. and if you have priced out a modern engine they cost just as much. Sure you could get a junk yard motor but guess what? It wont be long and you get the salvage packs for same cost. You actually already can.
Here is the thing regardless if you like the EV or even if it is lesser tech (that is not) Its coming. I am far right sided however I have been following this stuff since I was a child. Give the EV a bit man, the ICE has had well over a 100 years of production and development. The EV? what a decade? Its hardly even started and believe I will miss the sound of a high out put V8 roaring away under the hood. Keep in mind Im the guy that stuffs these engines into Toyotas, Hondas so they destroy the rubber. lol But a new Telsa will destroy a new Vett in a heart beat!
They actually precede the ICE! But they have not gone through development at least not at the level of the ICE or long duration production cycles and battery tech has never been developed like it is now. Lead acid has pretty much been it for over a 100 years and Lithium was not even approachable until 20 years ago. Now there are tons of companies working on this with new tech and chemistry that will replace it and hopefully soon. Alum ion, graphene, hemp carbon, solid state etc.
Electric vehicles definitely had a stunted growth. Why buy a 1910 Baker Electric that only goes 20mph for a fortune when you could buy a Model T Ford for a month’s wages that could go upwards of 40mph on flat ground?
It was always a matter of cost. I wish they would build dumbed down EVs like the old Honda Civic Hybrids. I don’t enjoy all the new tech in ICE vehicles let alone an EV. If someone were to make Spartan EVs with just bare essentials and no fancy bells and whistles that go haywire then I think they would catch on even faster than they do now.
I am looking for a car for work. Trailer 2000 kg minimum. And for the rest it is always to small. For the moment I will stick with my vito. Very happy with it and not run in yet with 270.000 km. Good for at least another 5 years. And then there will be an electric that suits me.
Cody,
I was watching a cheap little electric car startup from china. Yes, I felt buying a “Made in China” car is a bad idea, but still curious. They never made it to road legal in the USA, could not meet safety standards, and could not live up to the predicted range / performance. Just another fancy golf cart. (Low speed neighborhood utility vehicle). Tesla is crazy expensive, but think of all the engineering challenges and just plain failures they have had to overcome. Look at all the competition Tesla has left behind. Honda, Nissan, Chevy, Ford still taking their lumps, and low volume sales. My early favorite Mitsubishi iMiev all but disappeared from the roads. I vote for simple cars, like you want. I hope somebody gives us that choice soon. I met someone who had purchased a new Chrysler Pacifica EV. I did not even know those existed!
As for conventional ICE cars, I was looking on the internet for the “Cheapest new car on the lot”, no options, manual trans, etc. for a reliable replacement commuter car. Shocked and disappointed, they are non-existent. Dinosaurs, indeed.
I think the cheapest car that GM sells is the Chevy Spark. 13 grand sticker price with manual transmission, manual mirrors, and manual windows. Little bitty thing.
One of my sons has a deposit of some kind for a Tesla truck. I’m not a fan but all the specs were impressive and the price tag wasn’t more than a new 4WD fancy truck. Of course I wouldn’t want one of those either.
A few things you have to realize about the big three is they are established companies with massive infrastructure, investors, and then all the vendors that are all also established infrastructure and then we have the UAW. Its not so easy to jump ship or transition to anything for them.
Tesla they were all in and building infrastructure from scratch, they had nothing to lose as they didnt have any to lose but initial investment and they simply going for it. For everyone else that is established they all have everything to lose and making this transition wont be easy for any of them or any of it. The automotive industry is massive beyond comprehension.
Until Charles Kettering of Dayton Engineering Laboratories developed the electric starting motor for the 1912 Cadillac, many people (including those of the fairer sex) were unable to start an internal combustion engine, and the Stanleys and Whites were difficult to light properly.
Try to hand crank a Tin Lizzy with her bands out of adjustment, and she will definitely try and “nuzzle” you. Don’t let’s mention what cranking “down” with the ignition advanced would do to your wrist…yikes.
I think another critical point to make is that people who had Bakers, also had power. In 1910, that meant city folk, as the Delco 32v farm generators weren’t out yet.
I am just making the point that those were really different times…a fairer comparison would be how we have billionaire civilians flying their rockets into space…yet you and I can’t buy a new car because there are no chips…
These loads can not be ignored, but I was surprised at how minor they are compared to the power needed to move a vehicle at speed.
The most juice I have ever given my truck was 350 amps. At 160 volts, that is over 55,000 watts. When I was working on my truck, I could keep the cab toasty warm with a little 500 watt ceramic heater. On a scorching day, a 500 watt ac unit can keep a 200 sq ft bedroom cool - the inside of a car would be an ice box. So you could run AC or heat for almost 2 hours on the same power I would pull doing 1 minute of acceleration up a decent grade at 45mph. The batteries can handle it
As for real cold weather, where water thrown from a pot freezes before it hits the ground? Easy. Charge that car up, put as much of your junk in the back as will fit, and drive south. Seriously, I dont know how you Northerners manage.
Anyway, I find this topic very interesting. I suspect that a very similar discussion has happened throughout history:
“No, your iron tool is not better than my pointy stick, look, there are sticks everywhere! I can just go pick up another one when it breaks!”
“No, your steam contraption is not better than my horse! I can breed more horses every year, and I dont have to dig up food for them!”
“No, your gasoline engine isnt better than my steam engine, it smells bad, and besides, there is a coal vendor on every corner!”
And so on
I think it is fair to recognize that after a lifetime lived with a technology, it might be too late for an individual to change their ways; but that doesnt make the technological transition itself a fools errand. I suspect that electric cars are going to be just like every major shift. At first the zealots will say “this will fix everything!” Then the masses will realize it is actually better and adopt it. And then finally the new problems that arise after the old problems are fixed will simply move the goalposts ahead, and the process will repeat.
Ha! Ha! Great comparisons OregonCarl,
Just two fine tunings:
Iron tools displaced copper and bronze tools. “Your iron corrodes too easily!!” Ha! But in a paper/scissor’s/rock match up the iron cuts right though the copper. And iron plow edges made clay soil agriculture possible. Iron tools made hard rock mining possible.
In our wet, wet all vehicle manufacturers for the last ~30 years; first AC overchill the incoming or Recirc air to condense out the moisture; THEN hot coolant heat it. Winter your AC is cycling continuously to dehumidify the windshields, side glass, and passenger compartment.
S.U.
Apropos of nothing here but someday soon they will build an electric motor dragster that will outrun the 12000 HP top fuelers and funny cars they run today. Nobody will want to watch them run. There are already a couple of electric Pro-Stockers and they are very quick but they are like a whisper in the wind. No drama.
Obviously Tom hasn’t spent enough time in Grand Traverse County Jail for drag racing on North Garfield…says the guy who paints all his race cars “Citroen Green” so the eye cannot rest on them. There is a great deal to be said for something that is fast and invisible.
Yes, they did and still do have a lot to lose!! I agree with you otherwise. I did some studying up on Elon Musk and Tesla, Space X, whatever the solar + battery + grid energy storage division is called. Once you get beyond the Musk-Cult, Rah-Rah Hooray for Us stuff, it is a remarkable story! Very difficult for anyone else to endure the rapid pace of major changes to virtually every product and production process. A company to watch, even if no way I can afford their products. Maybe a couple batteries someday!
