Hi Joni, misunderstanding on your question sorry.
Bob
Steve,
what is pitch in gas, I know, I’m not a beginner … Another question is with the heating of the incoming air, but it gives an increase in power of only 2-3%, which is a minuscule compared to an increase in the compression ratio …
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Joni,
I have run woodgas effectively in a Detroit diesel 6.2 litre diesel whose compression ratio is 21:1
The gas was a fixed gas. No variety of wood species, and no moisture (Iraq in the summer).
This means very little hydrogen.
I would have destroyed the engine if it had hydrogen or water.
Next, I am not teasing or making fun. Do you have an ear to hear charge density? Hear the pinging an engine makes when it has a fast burning charge? These metrics allow you to judge how much is enough.
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Good. Good. I am answering with picture. I am old and slow now. Please be patient.
S.U.
Dear Joni,
maybe you already know by your woodgas experience. A quite easy thing is to “inner streamline” the intake manifold and eliminate any heating of the intake gas. On most older cars the intake manifold is heated by the exhaust, on newer often by the coolant. And on most older cars with carburetor the intake manifold is quite restricted (give better torque on low revolutions).
Larger intake manifold without heating is a good for more power.
Regards,
Til
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Xoie Ichigo’s now belt driven super charged will-be-again woodgasses engine for his car show vehicle.
Some here do pursue turbocharging and supercharging and precision machining works compression ratio improving for their woodgas systems.
Always the most expensive way to go with many, many downside consequences.
I admit here in the USofA (and Canada) Lands-of-Many-Engines, we are spoiled. Just use a better, different engine.
We will vehicle select for the best proven engine to use. This is practical for us.
Woodgas/producer gas/charcoal gas IC engine compression ratio . . . laboratory of 17/1maximum: India Institute of Science.
The actual real industrial engine makers building for these fuels . . . 11/1 the most common. A few at 13/1. They MUST make systems long life durable for varying climates, loads and operators.
These are compression ratio’s are impractical to use on common pump gasolines. Methane bi-fueling OK. Propane? Maybe. Depends. You will get combustion pre-ignition damage sometimes.
Here now on the DOW the best use proven ARE dual-fueled common pump gasoline and woodgas systems.
Retaining electronic port fuel injected gasoline systems allows for immediate all weather start up drive away WHILE the gasifier system warms up to good gas stability.
And out away; have a woodgas system problem: you, (YOUR WIFE) just goes back to gasoline and drive home.
Smaller engines high loads then gasoline can be metered in for a power boost.
Large engines, high loads, high 2000 meters living altitudes here/Canada and you can just again, blend in some gasoline.
AND . . .just before shutting down to parking . . .go back to straight gasoline to valves cool and wash. Setting up for the best next use experience.
The today future to vehicle woodgas Jodi is for you to learn the electronic ignition timing and fuel injection systems and then re-map those FOR your wood gas.
Not bolt on “solutions”.
Make better the existing in service ownership systems.
US Johnathan Spreadbouro started doing this with his Ford pickup trucks over 10 years
ago.
And this retired Master Auto Tech (me) says many here USofA must now get with it, and come into the 21st Century. With woodgased electronically controlled engines.
I just last month spent $300 USD to get a new minimum capable Vehicle computer reading scanner. My old 1994 upgraded many times unit; obsoleted out effective 2005-07.
Re-program capability reach-in systems start at $1600 to $3,000 USD.
One of you young Ukrainian fellows need to stop PCing and become the vehicle electronic controllers Tuner/Wizard.
Jodi, much respect for you and others there who do show actual DOing.
Yours however . . . . chipped green fuels with even leaf . . . much skepticism you are not making engine tars.
We’ve been DriZzleR’ed before with wild claims.
A little bit air pre-heating. A little bit engine exhaust heats scavenging (some putting the engines exhaust heat energy back into the system with an extra hopper jacket and/or an extra outer oxidization jacket). In system fuels de-humidifying improvements. In-hopper. Outside the hopper, conditioning the fuel just before hopper adding.
It all adds up. Adds up to 20-30% net improvements.
We understand that.
Scroll down for a picture of USofA’s Dave Nichols integrated gas-cooler/green wood fuel conditioner. Enlarge that. And wonder. I have for 10 years now. He was seeking patents so could not detail explain. That is O.K. His system. His to benefit from.
Steve Unruh
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Hi Joni,
Here is a very nice paper. See page 542. I hope it will help you. https://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/12531/InTech-Facts_about_producer_gas_engine.pdf
Also, I listen to racing people talk about methanol fuel. Most of them say 14.2:1 compression ratio is best. You can use higher ratios but they will not make more power.
Rindert
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Hi Til! Long time no read!
I did notice my 1.2l carbourated Škoda has exelent low rpm torq, compared to similar size injected motors. How is that?
Having 4 valves on cilinder helps a lot! My 1.6 chevy was a rocket on a highway but had litle torq in low rpm runing on wood
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Hi Kristijan,
oh yes, I was hiding a bit because I have no progress with my gasifier. Too many other things to do, but not forgotten…
Well the better torque at low rpm with a single carburetor is because the carb has a quite small csa and the intake manifold has long and narrow paths. Leads to good mixture for low rpm with a carb but due to restriction less max power at high rpm.
Extreme example is the old Land-Rover: Engine 2,25 litres, max torque at 1500 rpm but only 70 horsepower with a 36 mm carburetor.
I guess your Skoda is less extreme, but still more restricted compared to a petrol injection.
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Anyone running a 14 to 1 compression ratio on Methanol is not using a factory block. It would be a little tough even on the better GM LS engines with the six bolt mains. Not sure how you could get a significant increase in compression in those small Euro engines. Old school was mill the heads. At best you can get a few percent increase before you have to start worrying about valve interference. Now compression increase is done by redesigned heads and pistons which are designed to open into the piston. Easier to add boost with a turbo or blower but I don’t know what that means with a low density fuel like wood gas.
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in general, in my Opel, the ideal situation with the design; separate purging (intake manifold on the left and exhaust on the right, separate injection with the effect of “gas-dynamic boost”, increased compression ratio (compared to the factory), electronic ignition control system, the only drawback is the absence of turbocharging. Although without it my car accelerates to 120 kilometers per hour Do you think this is enough for a car fueled with wood? 
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120kmh is what l expect any of my vehicles to achive yes. What engine does the Opel have?
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the displacement of my opel is 1.8 l
I’m sure that the transmission itself prevents me from accelerating more, I have 13-inch wheels, at a speed of 120 km / h my tachometer shows 4000 rpm and for gas it’s a lot …
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Yevgen, what size and material are you using for restriction? I would be afraid to melt my restriction before even reaching 120 km/h. I don’t dare to think about what a turbocharger could do to the gasifier.
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Good morning Joni and welcome to the DOW.
Yes 4000 rpm on woodgas is a lot. My experiments with V8 woodgas truck shows I have better power to shift to higher gear at 3900 rpm.
Wayne
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Hmmm. Yes Joni.
I read. I see. I listen.
You already have a cross flow head engine with electronic fuel injection.
You have already compression boosted that engine.
Still maybe some improvement available with forced electronic ignition timing JUST for woodgas times. Easy if it has an ignition distributor.
Many here set these up on in-side cable operated movable distributor twisting controls.
Others with some non-distributor direct electronic ignition found they had to do nothing. The system self advance to a knock sensor limit. Then even self-set back a safety few degrees.
Others like JonathanS.'s mid-1990 Ford truck up had an off-road-racing Tuner add-on system available.
He could set up four completely timing gasoline fuel/ignition maps and selector switch back and forth.
And one fellow found on his Jeep/Dodge SOHC 4.8L V-8, no distributor engine that he could do nothing. No modification or technique worked to override the ignition timing.
V-8 engine with I-4 power on woodgas.
Turbo charging, or belt or electric driven super charging could be attempted.
I have the much working experiences with the 1980-2007 factory systems. Know them well for their benefits and problems.
You need a set up for your engine best exhaust turbine versus compression side turbine. You tune the boost cut in that way. Can even tune the maximum boost that way.
You need to engine coolant cool the center HOT bearing section for any lreal useable service life. And still should use the newest specification synthetic engine oil. HOT turbo charger bearing are oil cooking. Oil then carbon converts cokes. Bearing fails
Any boost past “light” .5 bar and the engine pistons will overheat without the factories added under pistons oil spray cooling. Hot pistons distort, wear. Hot pistons drive up the pre-ignition problems. Creating holes in pistons and hammered out connecting rod bearings
Supercharging better as you can get boost drive tuned to just above idle. Then RPM overboost pressure released OFF. Especially important on deacceleration.
Most supercharges have two front and rear bearing lubrication pockets. Very special. Very expensive oils. No circulating bearing cooling except for cast housing fins.
Electric driven supercharging possible like used on some VW’s, and I think later Mercedes. Will not be cheap.
Ha! Three time in the last 13 years I’ve had a woodgaaser hand me a turbo he had bought internet asking me to “hook it up” for him. Three times I handed it back. “You want to hot-rod. YOU learn your own damn lessons, man.”
One of you should spend out the EUROs for VesaM’s Ecomobilie woodagas book. He writes extensively about all of this done from experiences engines tuning for woodgas. And he is a trained working engineer so he explains the bad in broken parts pictures. Explains the good in SI units graphs and charts.
Regards
Steve Unruh
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Hi Steve,
I have worked a lot with the compression ratio of my engine and based on my own experience, I came to the conclusion that when increasing the compression ratio, the ignition timing should be set aside late and when the ratio of 11/1 is reached, it is completely consistent with gasoline. That is, subsequent changes no longer bring results.
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Favor trying the electric driven super charger then.
Give you the best changeable tuning control. Easiest retro-fit mounting.
Here is a cheapest buy-in typical:
https://www.dhgate.com/nonwayturbo-electric-supercharger-kit/568227808.html
Chinese.
I’d personally use VW factory used. That’s just old OEM-Steve me.
S.U.
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Steve,
I forgot to write about Wessa’s book … Do you see Steve I also have an engineering education and I know engines well, so I won’t find anything new in the purchased literature. You touched on the topic of heating parts (pistons), but you did not take into account the factor that the engine heats up much worse on wood gas than on gasoline. And I believe that overheating, in our case, can be neglected.
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Steve,
Thanks for the recommendation Steve, but I kind of don’t want to over complicate and redo my engine power system, as I want to have a dual system (gas-petrol). Another reason is the passing of a technical inspection by the police … My gas generator is very quickly and easily removed from the car and the car becomes fully consistent with factory standards (no alterations). Having received a pass, I return everything to its place and continue to operate.
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