https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=barra+engine+specs
These things are gaining legendary status SteveU. Not in league with the JZa80 but they are milking a lot of power out of these. Also supposed to be bullet proof.
In the same vein here is a new one on me.
Tell me if you think the guy in the video is CG.
A lot of video touting the building of various I-six big power engines. Seems to be some sort of shift away from big V-8’s going on.
Interesting about sixes.
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I don’t mind the idea of a TT I6, sounds like a beast off the line in theory. If the fastest production pickup truck was the GMC Syclone boosted 4.3L V6 for over a decade then I’d like to see what this can do.
Thanks TomH,
I’d been reading an American engine boosting article on the I6 Barra. They were aiming to match built Australian version at 1200-1800 hp.
Thier conclusion was it was not woo-woo magic but just one stiff-stout block.
The first video guy does look different alright but he’s real in my opinion. Look off screen at some of these quality youtube presenters and they are lights flooding hard. look at their eyes pupils.
I spent a lot of time in the 6=8 world. NOT having crossflow cylinder heads was always the limitation to that on American production I-6’s.
I believe both of these guys are correct. On all aspects they point out.
Note the Stelantis chassis (RAM/Dodge/Jeeps) are all rear wheel drive.
I-4’s; V6’s, even V-8’s can be fit in crosswise. I can only recall Volvo for a time trying a sideways I-6. Then going to a shorter I-5. Then turbo charging that.
Current front crash testing gives some fits for fore-aft located I-6’s. They want to shove straight back. Crosswise I-4’s gives a lot of resisting intrusion surface area. Sideways V engines can be made to push back and go under.
The new compliance God they all must dance the tune to . . . net carbon emissions. Cudo’s for keeping ICE’s going for another production generation.
And do look into the modern GM inline Atlas engines.
“Free the Carbons!!” sez I.
Steve Unruh
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Morning Steve
Seems Tom had you sorted while it was still the middle of the night here…
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This is just a preview of a Hot Rod Garage show where they build a GM Vortec 4200 to compete with the boosted Barra. HRG is the best build show on TV. In the end they dyno their GM to match the Barra numbers.
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Those 4.2 can be a ROWDY motor, guy up in Tacoma has one in a all wheel drive Chevy trailblazer twin turbo don’t recall exact numbers but he broke out at the drags sub 8 seconds and got kicked off the track. 900+ horsepower. I have watched those motors be extremely reliable, for Chevy standards several over 400,000 miles and still ticking. My only gripe is the front differential, bolted to the oil pan with pass through axle shaft. Just can’t like that design, but they made it fit in a midsize suv and that’s what they had to do. Decent mpg, stupid easy water pump! Remove serp belt 2 bolts and it’s off. When I was paid flat rate I really liked that!! Minor issue with cam sensors, easy fix. I seem to recall an egr/ vvti sensor issue, but it has been to many years to call my memory solid on it? Might have been the inline five, I don’t remember now
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Good Morning All,
On another topic I’d said that next up on the needs-done is convincing the Wife we need to shell out the $$$$ to get a new Honda 7000 inverter-generator.
Two short Grid power outages up at our soon to be retirement 5 acres tree-farm.
It has a 300 foot deep well. Excellent quality of water.
And ~200 feet in elevation; and 800 feet down slope to the year around running creek. (Which we are not suppose to disturb. Salmon, steelhead and trout spawning protected.)
Fishy and beaver poop water.
We will be needing some turn key 240 VAC wattage.
The Honda 7000’s use a slant cylinder 390GX engine. These and the smaller brother 340 engines are common now.
Specifications are easy to find.
Does this have a counter balance shaft?
Ahh. I’ll look up parts breakdown illustrations. Five suppliers to choose from, not-just-Honda OEM:
https://www.lawnmowerpros.com/honda/honda-gx390-engine-parts.asp
Nope. No counter balance shaft. But aftermarket alternatives for some Honda discontinued and hard to get parts.
Camshaft? Where? Lots of links to those directly looking up. Crankshafts too.
7000 wiring diagrams load up easy.
Factory service manual order available.
So back to my woodgas engine personal defining criteria:
Overhead valve. Two valve. Simple push rod activated.
A broad torque engine. Listed torque from 2300 rpm and up.
Bigger bore than stroke.
Rod length? Well. It is what it is.
Bluntly for me using a Chinese clone on this application and I’d want at least 2-3 engines for my spares. I would never have the service information. And you learn that China have many different engine manufactures with non-interchangeable variations.
And I’d be back to “Power-Cubing” a one-off solution for the Wife. A 100%; for-sure, fail. As all Power-Cube projects turn out to be.
28 years married and she’ll give’s me stink eye opening the hood of her “perfectly running car”!
I’ll say, “Honey it is 8 years old now with 172,000 miles. It got here with a lot of preventative services.” “Are saving back the $2300. money for a full front of engine timing chains, guides, oilpressure tensioners and four camshaft phaser when that stupid water pump finally lets go contaminating your engine oil?”
Hmmm?
She now conceded that buying a new replacement vehicle will be out of the question. Property purchase and a now 10 year commitment to the foster girls.
And Wife is now too old to go nights double shifting to zoom-zoom in the money for a new outrageously priced replacement car: new, or used.
SIMPLE, COMMON, with multi-source available, affordable, service parts is better!
You see fellows all of these things are much more than just a technical exploration.
You have to sell users confidence. And then follow through with dependable; quickly restorable, use results.
Steve Unruh
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So what’s your personal choice SteveU? This is an issue I’ll be facing fairly soon. I have a Miller gen/welder sitting out in the shed. 10K watts. Only 110V but can be reworked for 220V. I have a engine out of a 80’s Honda Civic that I was thinking about trying to adapt to it but I would rather use some kind of simple domestic 4 banger just as your design criteria specifies. Also have an 80’s V-6 Isuzu 2.9L. I think they used those on a lot of small SUV’s. Small Blazer, Honda Passport and ISuzu rodeo. That one has about 500 miles on the rebuild, but I did want to use it for something else.
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First Tom H you’d have to say choice-for-what.
A stationary electrical generator?
A transportable electric generator?
A true self-portable electrical generator?
Want direct driven compressed air and hydraulic power too? (the Power-Cube Ideal)
Dumb-dumb, because you want to minimized the movement of to-be-processed bulk as much as possible. Instead take the power to the needs. Then having only ONE power source you will weather window seasonal needs be stuck doing one thing at a time. The woodworkers one-tool-does-all ShopMate, dilemma.
And that ONE engine PowerCube system breaks: and you have nothing at all.
I’d rather spread out my needs-pleasers into three engine systems baskets.
The Miller welder/generator could do three out of five of these. But they are expensive if you ever lose the windings or a control board.
Your other two have the 3X advantage that you already own them.
But . . . the Honda actually has a salable value that could be gone forward for something simpler, better low RPM torque. $100-500?
The 2.9L V-6’s value is only in making up a one purpose stationary system like water pumping, or sawmilling imho. It dies. You do not repair at all. You remount, re-belt in another freebie engine.
Actually Tom the fellows doing the old AG 2wd wheeled tractors are satisfying all of these needs in one system. Just add a belt driven air compressor off of an over the road truck. PTO shaft drive a 10kW generator head.
We have the small tractor in our John Deere/Yammar 950. Yes diesel. Injectors out and spark plugs can be adapted in.
And I have a brushless Mecc-Alta 10kW 120/240 generator head.
For us the Honda 7000 would be another, very portable, quiet, power possibilities basket NOT then tying down the tractor. Not risking our, one-only.
You know: have a good shovel, a rake and a hoe. Ha! Then specialists variations in all of these.
Regards
Steve Unruh
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I thought you were talking about a fixed power generation system for homestead power. My example were for things I already have to adapt without having to expend any time, money or energy looking for possibly more suitable components. The things like saw mill power, portable generator power, log splitter, anything using a small air cooled engine, can all be done with bucket based simple fires.
My Miller welder is a 1985 Blue Star. I don’t know how much electronics it actually has. But the idea of running multiple power sources off of one engine is definitely appealing. I do have a gen head from a Milwaukee 3500 W. generator. It is the same one branded by different companies, like Troy built, Garden Way, Kohler, and perhaps others. Engine is long dead. It does have a 230V outlet that would power my well pump. Adding a compressor would be a huge plus, all running off the same engine.
My question is what engine would you consider for you Mecc-Alta gen head aside from your Yanmar, the criteria being simple multi cylinder non-electronic, reasonably priced, readily available or scroungable parts. The shovel, rake and hoe engine.
A lot of people don’t know that back, I think in the late 70’s. Fiat was promoting a home based power system using a small water cooled engine running continuously on a home Natural Gas line. Never went anywhere. Way ahead of it’s time.
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Way back on another thread I rebuilt and modified a big block Honda with clone parts and some machine work
This. Chinese company has since listed the pm generators for electric vehicle range extenders as spares after some convincing
You can build something pretty easy with standard parts if you want
The speed these Chinese guys are moving at is breathtaking
Now a water cooled clone block is available
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I’m sitting here playing my phone and no way to post decent pictures
What I would like to show you is an automatic choke I devised for the small block clone so you could reliably remote start it
This is now a standard feature on these Chinese battery systems
But I made one using easy to get Koehler lawn mower parts from the xt6 engine
Hey lol photo in m phone
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O.K. then. You lined out your goals desires. Let me re-state how I understand them please.
Your primary electrical power need is a deep water well. Like me. (240 VAC give power for better welders and plasma cutters too!)
Water wells are fixed in place. These do not move around.
You want a water-cooled engines so you can farm off pumpable, even storable engine heat.
You want it to be stationary, fixed. (Good. This allows for a larger weight/space.)
And you want a larger, multi-cylinder engine to make more heat and be easier able to load draw properly a raw wood gasifier.
On converting auto engines to power something like a 10kW generator power head . . . this is not that easy.
Figure you need to engine power out ~20 shaft horsepower. The engines front side pulleys are only set up to power out at most 5 horsepower per v-belt groove. Some do have two grooves the same size. 10 horsepower maximum. You’ll only get ~5 KW maximum. My deep well pump? Yeah. Probably. But nothing much else.
Now later model engines using a poly-groove serpentine belt. Yeah. Set up properly that could factory engine drive pulley transfer out 20 horsepower. It was running an alternator, AC compressor, and power steering pump.
But two things: You’d have to rob the capability of these others for just AC electrical production. And nearly all of these polygroove set up engines are distributor-less.
So really from a wide spread usability stand point you want to AC power off of the rear of the engine crankshaft.
Now that ain’t exactly easy setting up a driving pulley system back there.
Moderately precision metal lathe machining working needs to make adapters and such. Or a very good hand layout and fabricator craftsman to do this. Not just your average DIY guy.
My Mecc Alta is four pole 1800 RPM. Over 200 pounds. You really, want 1800 rpm. Matches the torque curve in a three or four cylinder auto, compact pickup engines.
Stationary, then fixed RPM you’ll only need basically two spark timing settings:
cranking to start; an full 1800 RPM power ignition timings.
Now so far as what vehicle/engine to look out for? Depends a lot on your local conditions. What hasn’t been scrap vacuumed up and gone already bye-bye.
Big changes around here when the Vancouver WA shredder was built 10-15 years ago. Everything within 75 miles gets metals sucked up.
It is Spring time. I drive by, and can lay hands on 2-3 Ford old 8N and 9N tractor for sale.
Sure a hated by me flathead engine. Doesn’t matter. Water-cooled. Adjustable distributor. Has a PTO drive shaft.
I drive by an old, old small saw mill I can seen one of theses (or something similar) was made to be the saw power source. The lift arm hydraulics converted for the log bed movements.
Now engine converting an auto engine needs quite bit more working to pull off all of these needs. 2022 ain’t like the old days where the same engine family was used for decades. Nope. They all dramatically change engines since mid-1990’s every 5-7 years. And none of these will have an ignition distributor.
Going back, stretching back; I’d use a 70’s, 80’s Ford 2.3L SOHC Ford Pinto/Fairmount/Ranger engine with a manual transmission. Others would say a GM Iron Duke four cylinder. Others say, Chrysler/Dodge 2.2L SOHC distributor type. Others would say the 70’s, 80’s four-cylinder Toyota’s. The DL and GL and earlier 1100, 1300 pushrod valved Subarus. Pick your engine family system then search out ahead to have cheap 2-3-4 of them. Be your own parts source. Independent of all going on outside.
Being willing to make up a flywheel crankshaft triggered ignition system as per Miller’s A-1 site opens up a much later wider range of engines possibilities. Geo Metros and such. The 2.2L push rod GM’s.
S.U.
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Thanks Wallace for the WSEPO site link.
Fascinating. Intriguing.
Regards
Steve Unruh
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Tom has an infinitely variable source of junk to choose from. Unlike Washington, Michigan has a lot of dirty industries, that used a lot of engines to power them. Tom only has to go to Bellaire, Mi, and browse Swain’s junk yard. He has stated he can’t get off his property. So he either has to work with what he has or order something in.
Here in the Michigan area Tom and I occupy, the Farmall H is the power cube. They can be had for $400. I always threaten to rebuild an H engine, but always find a good runner for less then the cost of a rebuild. Amazing, for something built in the late 1930s/early 1940s. You simply cannot find a 22hp engine with pto for less the a $1000 here.
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Exactly BruceJ.
Local conditions prevail over all other considerations.
Those 8N, 9N’s I referred to are going to cost you at least $1,000 CASH.
And still need work.
But cheap once you would have to buy out parts and custom services to adapt anything Automotive to serve the same.
DIY, all of the way. Sure. Cheaper. But in any way nearly as capable? Not.
The advantage of being truly Rural is the ability to stack up completely ignored, forgotten, underappreciated engine power systems.
Yeah. Washington State has turned weird, alright. I’ve watched old family farms rows, and rows of old set aside cars, trucks and tractors go bye-bye now to pay the killing WA State property taxes to keep old family still able to live out in place their golden years.
Five full mixed dump trailer loads of metals off of the sister’s old farm place to prep it for sale. All of the old vehicles gone bye-bye.
I’m taking all of my metals with me.
I’m not electronics fearful. So will be re-stocking on more modern junk vehicles. Still deciding, which.
And I got even five more compliment, three-knob 20 pounder propane bottle with this property. Ha! Combined with mine, about 150 gallons total I can store ahead. No more storing of way too expensive road and carboned taxed WA State gasoline for me. Propane is now 50% cheaper by energy value now. And I expect this to prevail from now on. I only need a 90 day cushion time to convert to woodgas.
Come-on N.K. Slam us with the EMP reset to restore some slowed down to the over-foamed up West Coast to something resembling sanity.
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So from what I can understand. The engines use the flywheel magnets to charge up a very hot wound stator to create the voltage, then rectified to DC?
After further inspection all their generators for AC power out out 50hz. Sad.
Yes pm generators but for battery charging only Cody
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